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Featured Enemies of Israel

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Redemptionsong, Nov 16, 2020.

  1. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    "What I find harder to understand is the idea that the 'parousia' took place in 1914'


    Jesus himself pointed to the precise date his Kingdom would be established ,remember this was the initial question as to when would his Kingdom be established not when would he be coming again I showed that was what his followers wanted to know Ill go over it again.

    The question they asked was ;
    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately and said, "Tell us, when will these things happen? And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

    I showed the original Greek was presence NOT coming they couldnt have asked him when would he be coming back to earth to set up his Kingdom since he made it clear his Kingdom was NOT earthly :


    King James Bible
    When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

    Again he made it clear to them his Kingom would be established in heaven so they naturally would want to know when he said this as a major sign that his Kingdom is establishedl

    Matt 24 -7
    For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,

    Jesus was predicting that a would war would mark his Kingdom would be established
    World War 1 was 1914 Jesus was actually pointing to this year Bible chronology also points to 1914 not just world war 1

    If you want to see how bible chronology points also to 1914

    https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005159#h=1:0-28:47
     
  2. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    If God's kingdom was only established in heaven in 1914, then l want to know what was happening in heaven from 33CE to 1914!
     
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  3. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    After the true Church was formed at Pentecost just as Jesus predicted the Devil infiltrated the Church and entered false doctrines and teachings.Jesus knew the Devil would corrupt the Pentecost he gave a parable predicting this;


    Google search
    https://www.google.com/search?clien...jAuMjMuM5gBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=psy-ab

    "Jesus compares the Kingdom of God to a person who sows good seed in a field. While he sleeps, an enemy comes and sows weeds among the wheat. ... The wheat will then be gathered and brought into the barn. In this allegory, the sower is Jesus and the enemy is the Devil."

    New International Version
    Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

    English Standard Version
    but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.

    Berean Literal Bible
    And when the plants sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared.

    New International Version
    "The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

    New Living Translation
    “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed. “‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

    New International Version
    "'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.

    New International Version
    Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'"

    This is what has happened since 33C.E to where we are now at the harvest

    Jesus foretold a great apostasy against true Christianity that he established at Pentecost 33C.E

    For a long period of time, true Christians and false Christians would be indistinguishable. Just as Jesus foretold, the apostasy flourished after the apostles died.

    Paul knew false teaching by the Devil would enter the true Church after they died:

    New Living Translation
    I know that false teachers, like vicious wolves, will come in among you after I leave, not sparing the flock.

    Nothing was done about it as Jesus said let them both continue
    "Let both grow together until the harvest"

    Constantine the Great established his beliefs into the True Church after 33 C.E

    Jesus also predicted that the distinction between true and false Christianity would eventually become clear.


    The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angel

    A group of bible believers began to question the Church teachings and the Church would hang anyone who dare question the teachings ,no one was allowed to have a bible in their possession ,the Church then had all bibles in a dead language of Latin
    that people couldn't read so they had to sit and listen to the Church as to what to believe.Finally several translators wanted to translate into their own language and the Church made it know that if any one was caught translating the bible they would be hanged and burned at the stake.;


    Tyndale "was strangled to death while tied at the stake, and then his dead body was burned".

    Tyndale was burned alive in a small town in Belgium in 1536. His crime was to have translated the Bible into English. He was effectively martyred after fighting against cruel and eventually overwhelming forces, which tried for more than a dozen years to prevent him from putting the Word of God into his native language


    The greatest challenge that Tyndale's Bible caused the Catholic Church is best summed up by Tyndale, when he gave one of his primary reasons for translating the Bible: to "cause a boy that driveth the plough to know more scripture than the clergy of the day", many of whom were poorly educated.

    https://www.google.com/search?clien...AuMzKYAQCgAQGgAQKqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab
    Tyndale's translation was the first English Bible to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English translation to take advantage of the printing press, the first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation, and the first English translation to use Jehovah ("Iehouah") as God's name as preferred by ...


    "If God's kingdom was only established in heaven in 1914, then l want to know what was happening in heaven from 33CE to 1914!"

    The Devil tried to stop people from reading the scriptures,he corrupted the Pentecost Church and killed anyone who went against the Church

    Zions Watchtower broke free from the Church in the 1800 and now known as Jehovahs Witnesses
     
  4. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    The point about Pentecost is that Jesus baptises true disciples with the Holy Spirit, and continues to do so even today. Yes, there are weeds in the field, but the judgment of Jesus Christ will decide who those weeds are. Has judgment yet come? No.

    The kingdom of God is entered by those who are born again of the Spirit of truth, the Holy Spirit [see John 3:3-7]. If God's kingdom did not come, or could not be entered, until 1914, then it means that no one entered the kingdom of God between 33 CE and 1914. Clearly this is nonsense! The kingdom of God is entered by faith, and there has been faith in Christ in every generation since 33 CE.

    If God's day of vengeance came in 1914, then why do we continue to see wickedness in the world?
     
  5. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    God is an enemy to Israel. He let almost all the tribes get enslaved and/or killed.
     
  6. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    Hi
    Redemptionsong

    If God's kingdom did not come, or could not be entered, until 1914, then it means that no one entered the kingdom of God between 33 CE and 1914. Clearly this is nonsense! The kingdom of God is entered by faith, and there has been faith in Christ in every generation since 33 CE"

    I never gave the thought that Heaven couldnt be entered in 33C.E. or until 1914
    Until Jesus presented his ransom to Jehovah no one could enter heaven until then;


    King James Bible
    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


    King James Bible
    And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

    The scriptures make that clear ,Christendom has Enoch going to heaven in the OT long before Christ ransomed mankind which is just one other false teaching of the Churches of Christendom.


    "If God's day of vengeance came in 1914, then why do we continue to see wickedness in the world?"

    Armageddon is yet future which is Gods day of vengeance .

    Christ told us to pray for Gods Kingdom to come did he not ,COME in what way?
    He made it clear New Jerusalem is in heaven and will not be over in the middle east


    New Living Translation
    Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not an earthly kingdom. If it were, my followers would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But my Kingdom is not of this world.”

    So we are not praying for it to come to earth but to COME to power and come against all other earthly Kingdoms

    New International Version
    "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.


    This is what we should be praying for it to come against all earthly Kingdoms ,its already established 1914

    One other proof it was 1914 is this verse;

    New International Version
    Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

    New International Version
    But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
    King James Bible
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him

    This was in 1914 which correspond to World War 1

    Knowing he was being cast out of heaven forever and his time was short he started another War being already angry ,he started War in heaven when Christ was crowned King then he started the worst War the world had ever seen just as Jesus predicted the Devil would after being unceremoniously kicked out of the heavenly realm;

    New Living Translation
    Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

    Jesus actually pointed to 1914 as the established time his Kingdom would be established


    Some 19 centuries before the outbreak of World War I, Satan offered Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world.the apostle John wrote that “the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.”—1 John 5:19.

    If Satan the Devil has so much power over the world, would it not be reasonable to conclude that he played a part in the first world war and its aftermath?

    the book of Revelation links Satan to the calamities the earth has suffered since
    1914.

    How do we know for sure the Devil started the War on earth in 1914?


    King James Bible
    Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    No question the scriptures says after the Devil was removed from heaven he was cast to the earth and woe would follow so its clear something happened in heaven in 1914 that caused the Devil to become very angry it must be that Gods Kingdom began;

    They said: “Praise Jah,*+ because Jehovah* our God, the Almighty,+ has begun to rule as king!+ 7 Let us rejoice and be overjoyed and give him glory, because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself. 8

    Obviously to began to rule means someone else was ruling symbolically The Devil and now he stripped of his ruler ship and kicked out of Heaven


    World War 1 began in 1914

    Zions Watchtower pointed to 1914 from bible chronology 40 years beforehand
    For Decades they warned the world that Gods Kingdom would be established in 1914
    They thought that in 1914 it would be the end with Armageddon in that year
    winch is understandably since the Gentile times ended in 1914 so logically it would be the end


    On August 30, 1914, headline “End of All Kingdoms in 1914” in the Sunday magazine section of The World, a leading New York newspaper in New York 1914

    The World Magazine. August 30, 1914 | Bible, New world, Jw.org

    The article says;

    “The terrific war outbreak in Europe has fulfilled an extraordinary prophecy,” “For a quarter of a century past, through preachers and through press, the ‘International Bible Students [Jehovah’s Witnesses],’ best known as ‘Millennial Dawners,’ have been proclaiming to the world that the Day of Wrath prophesied in the Bible would dawn in 1914. ‘Look out for 1914!’ has been the cry of the hundreds of traveling evangelists who, representing this strange creed, have gone up and down the country enunciating the doctrine that ‘the Kingdom of God is at hand.’”


    So even the newspapers of the day acknowledged Jehovahs Witnesses for 40 years prior to 1914 was warning of major trouble and the world war 1 started
     
  7. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    1914 marked the beginning of WW1, in which approximately 17 million people died; compare that to WW2 in which approximately 50-80 million died. So why pick 1914 as the Day of Wrath? Another option would be to choose 1918, when the Great Influenza pandemic began, eventually killing an estimated 50 million people.
     
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  8. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    This is a guess which War killed the most people Bible chronology points to 1914 not just because of a war ,Zions Watchtower was not warning of a coming war they didnt know a world war would be 1914 even though Jesus said Nation would fight against nations they were warning of Armageddon in 1914 the END of this evil world
    The reason is the Gentile times to rule over Gods throne ended in 1914 the fact that a world war started proved the Kingdom was established. Zions Watchtower was not warning of 1914 because of Jesus saying a world war would start they were the only religion that discerned the times would in that year in 1914 they were critized because the end didnt come most didnt look at the fact that a world war started
    simply because many nations dont believe in the New Testament especially the Jews they reject Jesus and the NT .

    So how did Zions Watchtower come up with 1914?

    It all starts with the world rulerat the time King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon to have a prophetic dream about an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump was prevented from regrowing for a period of “seven times,” after which the tree would grow again.

    He as supreme ruler of the world was bragging about how great he was and God struct him:
    Daniel 4:1-37
    he was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon. 30 The king was saying: “Is this not Babylon the Great that I myself have built for the royal house by my own strength and might and for the glory of my majesty?”

    While the word was yet in the king’s mouth, a voice came down from the heavens: “To you it is being said, O King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar, ‘The kingdom has gone away from you,

    He was to give the Kingdom to Shiloh

    This is by the decree of watchers,a and the request is by the word of the holy ones, so that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that he gives it to whomever he wants, and he sets up over it even the lowliest of men.”


    God had set up a kingdom on earth to represent his rulership on the ancient nation of Israel represented his rulership but continued disobedience and worshiping false gods he removed that Kingdom in 607BCE Bible scholars dispute JWs date was 607 and instead 587 BCE that Jerusalem was destroyed marking the Gentiles reign

    JWs say according to scriptures it was 607 and from that date 2,520 backwards is 1914 no 0 year

    How did they come up with 2520 the Gentiles would rule?

    The “seven times” represent the period during which God allowed the nations to rule over the earth without interference from any kingdom that he had set up. The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians
    Luke 21:24

    And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations;a and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.appointed times of the nations: Or “times of the Gentiles.” The Greek word kai·rosʹ (here the plural form is rendered “appointed times”)

    So when these times ended Gods Kingdom would begin

    The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.”
    It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days

    Revelation 12:6
    And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.
    So the 1260 days are years in view of;

    prophetic rule “a day for a year,”

    Numbers 14:34
    According to the number of the days that you spied out the land, 40 days,a a day for a year, a day for a year, you will answer for your errors 40 years,

    Israel didnt wander 40 days each day was a year they wandered 40 years so that same rule for 2520 days the Zions Watchtower believed it was 2,520 from 607BCE
    which ended 1914 is the date the Gentile times ended and God could now enthrone his son Jesus as King

    So to sum up this scriptural chronology

    Daniel 4:32

    Let its heart be changed from that of a human, and let it be given the heart of a beast, and let seven times+ pass over it.+

    That totaled 1,260 days or 2,520 from 607 BCE is 1913 no 0 year so its 1914

    As I mentioned some bible scholars object to 607 as the date Jerusalem was destroyed and interject 589 BCE

    https://www.google.com/search?clien...hUKEwjLnI6N8a3tAhWDl60KHS1CA4UQ4dUDCAw&uact=5

    Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. In 589 BC, Nebuchadnezzar II laid siege to Jerusalem, culminating in the destruction of the city and its temple in the summer of 587 or 586 BC.

    People also ask
    How many years is it from 607 BCE to 1914?
    2,520 years
    From this, they conclude that Daniel chapter 4 prophesied a period of 2,520 years, from 607 BC until 1914.

    Does the teaching about 607 BC correct?



    Does the teaching about 607 BC correct? - My Answers

    607 OR 587
     
  9. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    The World Magazine. August 30, 1914 | Bible, New world, Jw.org

    You can actually read the article of 1914 click link to access article then to enlarge
    click at bottom, left icon i.pinimg ,then click article again to enlarge

    The World, a leading New York newspaper in New York in 1914
    alerted the world that basically there might be something to what these bible students been saying for many years about 1914

    If a religious organization predicts to watch out for 2020 in December in terms of bible prophecy and started saying this in 1990 and print books on the year 2020 December ,magazines hand out pamphlets,millions of tracts all over the world in hundreds of different languages and have vehicles with loud megaphones warning that in the month of December 2020
    will fulfill bible prophecy of great trouble and World War 3 started in December 2020
    people would be forced to take that religious group seriously

    loud megaphones

    loud megaphone image - Google Search

    This is what happened in 1914 Zions Watchtower knew the Gentiles time ended and thought Gods Kingdom would take action on this earth
    When the end didnt come they realized Jesus also said in the same context in Matt 24th
    According to Matthew 24:1-50
    See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.+

    In their eagerness to see the end mistakenly thought it was the end
    No different than Jesus followers who asked tell us WHEN will these things be
    yet they were labled false prophets as if they were saying that God told them the end was 1914 ,they never said this was from God they themselves calculated the end of the Gentile times in fact the Witness made it known that the gifts of the Spirit ended with the Apostles and said the Zion Watchtower is a bible based journal and is not inspired of God as if God speaks to the Governing body new revelations

    Even before 1914 they printed ;

    No, The Watchtower is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a Book of prophecy..."

    "It is not our intention to enter upon the role of prophet to any degree, but merely to give below what seems to us rather likely to be the trend of events—giving also the reasons for our expectations."–WT 3/1904.

    From the beginning they made it known they are Prophets yes but just because they are doesnt mean they can predict the future like prophets of old in fact most prophets didnt predict but proclaimed the already written word

    We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425)

    “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306)


    So the label of false prophets are false
     
  10. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    i agree with Labourwave, the nation of Israel is no better than Hamas
    Hezbollah
    ,or any Islamic terrorist group. The reason is they are not a Theocracy like their forefathers who depended on Jehovah for their existence ,instead they depend on the United States . Many think that the 1948 State of Israel fulfilled bible prophecy but since 33.CE God rejected the fleshly nation of Israel for a spiritual nation Spiritual Israel the scriptures are quite clear on this.The Nation of Israel over in the middle east Rejected the Messiah Jesus ,rejected the New Testament and says the deliverer has not come.Because they rejected Jesus he predicted the Temple that represented Gods Kingdom on earth would be destroyed demonstrating his rejection of the natral Jews,this prophecy was fulfilled in 70C.E which ended Gods dealing with fleshly Israel for ever
     
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  11. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    Jeremiah 29:10
    In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I [Jehovah] shall turn my attention to you people [the Jewish exiles], and I will establish toward you my good word in bringing you back to this place [the land of Judah]

    After 70 years of exile, from 607 to 537 B.C.E., King Cyrus of Persia released the Jewish captives and allowed them to return to their homeland to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.

    Ezra 1:2-4
    This is what King Cyrus of Persia says, ‘Jehovah the God of the heavens has given me all the kingdoms of the earth,+ and he has commissioned me to build him a house in Jerusalem,+ which is in Judah. 3 Whoever there is among you of all his people, may his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and rebuild the house of Jehovah the God of Israel—he is the true God—whose house was in Jerusalem.* 4 Anyone who is residing as a foreigner,+ wherever he may be, let him be helped by his neighbors* by their giving him silver and gold, goods and livestock, along with the voluntary offering for the house of the true God,+ which was in Jerusalem.’”

    Just yet another example of misapplying scripture to mislead those who look to preachers of Christendom for spiritual instructions but instead of feeding the congregates wholesome fresh spiritual food these false shepherds feed
    JUNK food,yes it sounds good tastes good ,look good but its not good for you
    The Churches of Christendom ase slated for destruction by the God they falsely claim to serve ,the last book for Revelation has issued this warning:


    A Revelation to John 18:1-24
    And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.+ 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,


    Get out of WHAT? does God give us a clue what to flee from? YES

    Revelation to John 17:1-18
    Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters,+ 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality,*+ and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.

    Who does this whore represent ,remember Revelation is all in symbols :

    "And he sent his angel and presented it in signs "

    King James Bible
    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


    signified;
    a concept or meaning as distinguished from the sign through which it is communicated —

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    The revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave Him to show His slaves what must quickly take place. He sent it and signified it through His angel to His slave John,


    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he symbolized it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan,

    What do symbols symbolize?

    A symbol is a mark, sign, or word that indicates, signifies, or is understood as representing an idea, object, or relationship. Symbols allow people to go beyond what is known or seen by creating linkages between otherwise very different concepts and experiences.


    So this whore must represent something but what?
    [1] She sits on many waters
    [2] She sits on a scarlet-colored wild beast
    [3] woman was clothed in purple and scarlet RED

    what color is scarlet in the bible?

    Scarlet is a bright red hue with hints of orange. Scarlet is the color traditionally worn by cardinals in the Catholic Church

    [4] and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls

    [5] she had in her hand a golden cup

    [6] On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great,

    [7] The Golden Cup was full of BLOOD the woman was drunk FROM SO MUCH blood

    OK lets decipher some of these into more focus as now its blurry as to who she represents lets focus her

    Verse 15
    The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues.

    So she dominates a huge amount of the world in some way, billions of humans

    Verse 16
    The wild beast hates her whom she is riding and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.+

    So she is going to be destroyed one day but still who is she?

    After she is destroyed we hear this:


    She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen,+ and she has become a dwelling place of demons

    Isaiah 21:9

    "Then he spoke up and said: “She has fallen! Babylon has fallen!b All the graven images of her gods he has shattered to the ground!”

    Are you beginning to she who she represents? NO ?Lets continue

    Aftermath of her destruction a Angel proclaims

    Verse 22
    And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp, of musicians, of flutists, and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again. And no craftsman who practices any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again. 23 No light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again;

    Still no idea who she represents? NO?

    Verse 23
    by your spiritistic practices+ all the nations were misled

    Good News Translation
    Never again will the light of a lamp be seen in you; no more will the voices of brides and grooms be heard in you. Your merchants were the most powerful in all the world, and with your false magic you deceived all the peoples of the world!"

    The Devil can perform magic ;


    King James Bible
    And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
    Then the king called for his wise men and magicians, and by their magic they did the same thing.

    So whoever she represent God says he will destroy that agency and warns people to flee from it whatever it is,from reading posts here on this site many are very intelligent
    and should easy come to a realization as to who this woman represents
    you dont need me to reveal it the scriptures has


    A Revelation to John 18:1-24
    And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people,+ if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.+ 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven
     
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  12. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Let's clear up one point at a time!

    You say that 1914 marks the end of the times of the Gentiles, according to JW scholars. Presumably, this is based on Gentile dominion over Jerusalem? Or, is it on the spread of God's word worldwide? You must have some way of measuring when the Gentile times are at an end.

    What period, or dispensation, do you see following the 'times of the Gentiles'? Has that period materialised?
     
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  13. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    The city of Jerusalem was the city of God ,it was as if he sat on the throne in the city himself :

    Psalm 48
    Jehovah is great and most worthy of praise

    In the city of our God, in his holy mountain.

    2 Beautiful in its loftiness, the joy of the whole earth,+

    Is Mount Zion in the far north,

    The city of the Grand King.+

    The Jewish kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on “Jehovah’s throne” as representatives of God himself. Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah’s rulership.

    1 Chronicles 19
    And Solʹo·mon sat on Jehovah’s throne+ as king in place of David his father

    So this city was very important to God and even today there is a fight as to shouuld rule Jerusalem as Islamic nations hold the city holy.

    So when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. Jehovah’s throne began to be trampled by non Jewish , the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted in 607BCE thats why Jesus eluded to this ending ;

    Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled
    King James Version

    So when this time period is up God can appoint a King of not the earthy Jerusalem over in the middle east but New Jerusalem in heaven.The Jews dont want to hear this they are still looking for Jesus to come over to Israel on earth and restore the Jewish Kingdom ,thats the reason they rejected Jesus him he came and as Ive pointed out even his loyal followers wanted Jesus to set up the Kingdom back then 2000 years ago and Jesus had the power to do just that he could have summoned a legion of Angels to help with the restoration [1 Angel killed close to half a million soldiers ]
    so his followers knew nothing could prevent the restoration of Israel Kingdom
    Jesus declined becoming King and withdrew from those urged him to be King.


    So 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered began this time and ended in 1914
    Ezekiel
    21
    A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I will make it. And it will not belong to anyone until the one who has the legal right comes,+ and I will give it to him.’+

    That one is Jesus/Shiloh

    The Devil understand the scriptures and knows the Bible better than any human
    in fact he has quoted scripture from time to time showing he is a bible scholar

    New American Standard Bible
    and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,

    'HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU'; and 'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP, SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'"

    The Devil was quoting Psalm 91:11

    New International Version
    For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways;
    they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

    How did he know it said this unless he read it,so my point is he knows when the Gentile times would end he has read the passages ,he knows which of the hundreds of thousands of religions God is using to preach the Good new of the Kingdom
    He would not want this good news even mentioned in the worlds Churches would he not? At the door Ive asked people what is the good news we should preach as followers of Christ? every one said the same thing

    "The death burial and resurrection of Jesus "

    This is indeed good news and the Devil slyly makes this be whats preached in Church but nothing about a Kingdom which is all Jesus talked about ,most of his parables were about this Kingdom and Jesus said what the good news we are to preach:

    Matt 24;

    And this good news of the Kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations,+ and then the end will come.


    Good news mean Gospel so Ive asked people at the door what is the Gospel many said Matt mark luke and John .

    So people are not being taught the truth and the Devil will see to it and after Gods Kingdom was established he started a War bitterly contesting Jesus being Crowned King ,he lost and was barred from heaven so what does he do?
    He started a War on earth the 1st World which was the same year the Kingdom was born and had all of Zions Watchtowers leaders sent to prison ,angered as to what his fate was.

    1916: Witnesses persecuted
    Rutherford and seven other Watch Tower executives were imprisoned .
    During the First World War, Witnesses in Britain, Canada and the USA suffered from government action.

    Rutherford and seven of his colleagues were sentenced to 20 years in prison for conspiring to promote draft evasion during a time of war.

    This all was from the Devil who knows the scriptues ;

    Rev 12
    Now have come to pass the salvation+ and the power and the Kingdom of our God+ and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God!+

    So this is what he does he accuses the brothers this time on earth since he cant accuse aging in heaven.

    He the Devil knows the Bible chronology when the Gentiles end ,they told Jesus was he there to torment them before there time


    King James Bible
    And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

    Why would the say that unless they knew the times was yet future,that indicates they know the math, God hasn't announced when the Gentile times ended the only way to determine is from 607 when Jerusalem was destroyed which counting backwards 2520 years is 1914 it would be foolish to think the Devil was not well aware of this date.
     
  14. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Religious answer, yes.

    More involved answer, perhaps, as 'kings are set up'...(?)

    So, generally, yes.[definition of 'Israel'?
    Actually an interesting question, Biblically.
     
  15. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Agreed.

    Does this come back to the definition of 'Israel'
    Perhaps the question in the premise is contextual.
     
  16. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    No it isn’t. It is a morally upright irredentist state that is fighting the actual colonists, Arab usurpers and carpetbaggers.
     
  17. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right; the definition of 'lsrael' and the context are all important.

    On another thread we were discussing the difference between Jacob and lsrael. It seems that lsrael knows God 'face to face'. This suggests to me that spiritual Israel must belong to Christ. That would explain why 'all Israel shall be saved'.
     
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  18. Labourwave

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    Outright false.
    Israel over the last century has expanded only through theft of Palestinian land and the regime continues illegal settlements today. You're just an apologist.
     
  19. JW Minister

    JW Minister Member

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    I agree with labourwave and what makes the state of Israel more egregious is the portrayal that they are still Gods chosen. Israel over in the middle east is governed as a secular democracy and makes no claim to rely on the God of the Bible.

    State of Israel bases its claim to statehood on a UN resolution and what it calls the natural and historic right of the Jewish people.

    The year 33 C.E., the fleshly nation of Israel lost its claim to be God’s chosen nation when it rejected Jehovah’s Son, the Messiah Jesus, The Messiah himself put it this way:
    Matthew 23:37, 38) NWT
    “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent forth to her . . . Look! Your house is abandoned to you.”

    So scripturally Israel has no natural and historic right to Palestine of course Israel
    reject the New Testament and Jesus yet some preachers in Christendom misapply new testament and OT scriptures to this terrorist state .
    The many prophecies of restoration that were delivered to ancient Israel referred to the nation in captivity in Babylon and NT prophecies to a Spiritual Israel .

    The notion that God would show Israel favor again, gradually restoring the Jews to Palestine is false,what took place in 1948 in Palestine with regard to the Jews was not the fulfillment of Jehovah’s grand restoration prophecies. Desolation came on first-century Jerusalem because the Jews had rejected God’s Son, the Messiah, the one sent in Jehovah’s name.

    What had been taking place in fulfillment of those restoration prophecies pointed in another direction to spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God,” composed of spirit-anointed Christians, who, in fulfillment of God’s purpose, were enjoying peace with God through Jesus Christ.

    (Gal. 6:16)
    As for all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy be upon them, yes, upon the Israel of God.+

    Jehovahs Witnesses are not anti Semitic there are Kingdom halls in Israel where Jewish worship of the deity Jehovah
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

     
  20. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    @JW Minister -

    Except for your noting that the State of Israel - good, bad, or indifferent - is a secular state, your post is.... Well, let me put it this way- Criticizing the modern State of Israel is not, in and of itself evidence of antisemitism. Israeli citizens criticize their own government. Jews in the diaspora will criticize the state when they believe it is necessary. Even non-Jews who criticize are not necessarily antisemitic.

    However, you have used, in this case, criticism of Israel as a segue into an anti-Jewish, anti-Judaism diatribe, and so labeling it as antisemitic is appropriate.
     
    #60 RabbiO, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
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