Encouraging renunciation

[Vinayaka]

Renunciation, sannyas, not the last stage of life, but the lifetime variety may be a dying activity. In organisations like BAPS, it's encouraged. A family is proud to send a son off to the monastery, but those types of organisations are rare. The Sankara Maths are losing numbers, Ramakrishna Mission probably is, and so are many more. Approximately 2 million ascetics either live in maths, aadheenams, mutts, monasteries, or wander alone, or a combination of both, like some aghori sects.

It's a life of service, but more importantly, a life of renunciation in search of the Self, nirvikalpa samadhi, and moksha. In these materialist days, I don't see it being encouraged much. It's basically an embarrassment in some circles these days. Young men should be doctor or engineers, not renounce the world. It's a challenge to maintain numbers, yet many of our greatest sages like Patanjali, Shankara, Vivekananda, and others followed the renunciate dharma.

So what do we do to encourage it? Has anyone here even spoke of it as an alternative to the young folks in your family?

The Brahmin priesthood faces similar challenges, due to anti-Brahmanism. Thoughts?

 

[Viraja]

Very tough question on a tough choice.

In South India, poor brahmin children get into patashaalas (vedic schools) when they are 5 yrs old and graduate to become preists. The well-to-do children are never ever guided to pursue the same.

In my Facebook page, there is a person who routinely writes on Indian Military. He praises to rooftop Indian military, nevertheless, his son is an average everyday guy, earning in dollars for his own welfare in the corporate world. Why he is not encouraged to join the military by his dad? No one asked.

 

[Vinayaka]

Very tough question on a tough choice.

In South India, poor brahmin children get into patashaalas (vedic schools) when they are 5 yrs old and graduate to become preists. The well-to-do children are never ever guided to pursue the same.

In my Facebook page, there is a person who routinely writes on Indian Military. He praises to rooftop Indian military, nevertheless, his son is an average everyday guy, earning in dollars for his own welfare in the corporate world. Why he is not encouraged to join the military by his dad? No one asked.

That's sad, but gosh I loved hanging out around patashaalas. There was a neat on e at Tiruparankandram, and another at Pillaiyarpatti. Those poor Brahmins are the lucky ones, in my book. But yes, same thing here, none of our Brahmin children want to be priests. My Guru encouraged people to give them much more respect, like pay them a wage similar to what western clergy get. The smartest and friendliest people I encountered in India were the priests.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Sankara Maths are losing numbers, Ramakrishna Mission probably is, and so are many more. Approximately 2 million ascetics either live in maths, aadheenams, mutts, monasteries, or wander alone, or a combination of both, like some aghori sects.

So what do we do to encourage it? Has anyone here even spoke of it as an alternative to the young folks in your family?

The Brahmin priesthood faces similar challenges, due to anti-Brahmanism. Thoughts?

Numbers in seminaries are not important, but the followers are. And there is no dearth of followers. I am not in a seminary, but I espouse Sankara's philosophy. Those who have that inclination will accept ascetic life, like Yogi Adityanath has done. Most sadhus in India are just beggars in an as ascetic's attire.

Let it be as it is. Actually, we should advise young people to fulfill their dharma rather than take up asceticism. No question of encouraging it, but as you say it is encouraged in Jainism and BAPS, which I consider wrong. BAPS is just a cult, and Jainism accepts even children as ascetics.

Brahmins do not face any delimma. They are busy in their worldly affairs and doing well in various occupations including Armed forces. The current Army Chief is Gen. Manoj Pande. Only a minuscule think of sannyasa. Brahmins have prospered in spite of all difficulties because of their education. Like Viraja said, brahmin priesthood generally comes up from poor families and it is a good option for them.

 

[Vinayaka]

Numbers in seminaries are not important, but the followers are. And there is no dearth of followers. I am not in a seminary, but I espouse Sankara's philosophy. Those who have that inclination will accept ascetic life, like Yogi Adityanath has done. Most sadhus in India are just beggars in an as ascetic's attire.

Let it be as it is. Actually, we should advise young people to fulfill their dharma rather than take up asceticism. No question of encouraging it, but as you say it is encouraged in Jainism and BAPS, which I consider wrong. BAPS is just a cult, and Jainism accepts even children as ascetics.

Brahmins do not face any delimma. They are busy in their worldly affairs and doing well in various occupations. Only a minuscule think of sannyasa. Brahmins have prospered in spite of all difficulties because of their education. Brahmin priesthood generally comes up from poor families.

I'm speaking of ascetics whose dharma is asceticism. I've met a few people who would have done better as ascetics, but because parents revolted, they were stuck in 'occupations' they really weren't cut out for. I think parents should support whatever their kids decide to do, if the child is happy, and becoming a monk in an order is one viable option. Of course I don't mean the lazy beggar type you refer to but an order where great discipline is required with a ton of training.

If your son would have been determined to join a religious order to help mankind in that way (like Yogi Adityanath) would you try to talk him out of it?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I've met a few people who would have done better as ascetics, but because parents revolted, they were stuck in 'occupations' they really weren't cut out for. I think parents should support whatever their kids decide to do, if the child is happy, and becoming a monk in an order is one viable option. Of course I don't mean the lazy beggar type you refer to but an order where great discipline is required with a ton of training.

If your son would have been determined to join a religious order to help mankind in that way (like Yogi Adityanath) would you try to talk him out of it?

No one can stop a person from becoming a renunciate if they so desire earnestly. Vivekananda and Adityanath are examples. Even Modi would have been a renunciate if Ramakrishna Mission would have accepted him (He went and stayed there but Ramakrishna Mission head did not accept him for whatever reason - Swami Atmasthananda. Modi was a 16 year-old at that time, 1966).
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Desiring to be an ascetic and living a life of ascetic are two very different things. I have met many who desire, but will hardly be able to go through the grind. My son wanted to leave his studies and be a singer. We dissuaded him and now he is doing very well in corporate world. Children have various whims in their time, I was no exception and had various whims at different times. Sure, I would try to dissuade if any of my grandsons would think of that.

They better be 'Nitya Sannyasi' as mentioned in Gita 5.3.
"jñeyaḥ sa nitya-sannyāsī, yo na dveṣṭi na kāṅkṣati;
nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho, sukhaṁ bandhāt pramucyate."