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Empathy versus psychopathy

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I think the last part of the article is most useful:
Richard Boyatzis hopes that their study can help moderate how we approach the supposed battle of science and religion. “Because the networks suppress each other, they may create two extremes,” he said. “Recognizing that this is how the brain operates, maybe we can create more reason and balance in the national conversations involving science and religion.”
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Yes. There is a problem however. The onus of this effort may lie be more on the empathic side.
Yes. I agree. But I think those of us who are more empathetic should accept the burden if the goal is balance and understanding. Understanding is empathetic.

In a similar way; I think that Atheists accept more of the burden when it comes to myth busting.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
There are three phases, as per Satapatha Brahmana, which is part of the Vedas.

The first phase is of helplessness, lack of understanding, and often blind surrender, like an infant. This phase, in general, lasts up to 30 years of age and is characterised by obedience and submissive theism. Then comes rational understanding and independence. This phase may extend till age of 60 and is characterised by self confidence and atheism. After 60, man begins journey towards death and some may gain the wisdom that one river of awareness runs through all, leading to conscious loving-kindness.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
Actually I would like ask:Is there a difference from being a "Empath"and having Empathy or being Empathic? or are all the same thing!! Reason I ask is because I am a" Empath" by way of actually feeling someones anger or sorrow,emotions and also someone else's actual pain to the point of having to be careful because I can get very drained mentally and physically afterwards.I never really thought about it before now.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
For a true religious person, being empathetic is more important than the need to demonstrate individual smart.

For the secular humanist, both empathy and analytical thinking are fundamental virtues, and both are part of the rational ethics of secular humanism. It's not an either-or-matter.

Furthermore, the inability to think analytically doesn't make one's thinking empathetic. It just means that one is going through life without being able to think critically, which is analogous to the horse with no rider, the horse being the emotions, desires, and impulses, the rider being the element that guides the emotions in an effort to maximize the good ones and minimize the undesired outcomes. If you can do that well, with a little luck, you'll navigate through life relatively smoothly. If you can't think well, you make many more mistakes and errors of judgment, perhaps marrying into an abusive relationship, or drunk driving and paralyzing or killing yourself, or accidental drug overdosing, or dropping out of high school. These are the kinds of mistakes people who act on urge unrestrained by the reins of reason make much more often, leading to lives of regret and insecurity.

Finally, my first 55 years of life were spent in America, the next 10 in Mexico. The two are very different when it comes to religion. It's the American experience that informs my opinions of religion, which I confess is a limited perspective. But in America, it's not the Christians with the empathy. It's the secular humanists. Which kind of man has empathy for the lives of women - their rights, their social equality, their equal pay? It was the Christians that defeated the Equal Rights Amendment a few decades back.

Who is demonizing and marginalizing the lives of homosexuals, calling them immoral and appropriately hell-bound, and who is taking the empathetic position that since I wouldn't want to be mistreated like that, I won't do it to others?

Who is taking the side of the transgendered person who wants to be able to choose a bathroom that he or she feels comfortable in, and who is telling them to take a hike and refusing to use the pronouns of the preferred gender?

Consider the white supremacists marching at Charlottesville, and the antifa counter-protesting them. Which is the empathetic group, and which are selfish, hateful, bigots? Which group do you think has the greater concentration of Christians? Which has the greater concentration of secular humanists?

We're not told (or I skimmed over) what criteria were used to assess for empathy other than a certain region on a functional magnetic resonance brain scan (fMRI) becoming more active.

Atheists OTOH are smarter but are more likely psychopaths.

Also, the definition of psychopathy is suspect. The article read, "atheists were found to be most aligned with psychopaths — people classified as such due to their lack of empathy."

That's incorrect. That is the definition of sociopathy. Psychopathy adds malice and a proclivity for violence, especially sadistic violence to bare sociopathy, or indifference to the harm that comes to others. The sociopath might hurt you say by embezzling funds from you because he doesn't care what harm comes to you, but his purpose is to get your money, not to hurt you. The psychopath will harm you because that is his purpose. That is his pleasure.

Apparently, this was also assessed by fMRI, as if there is a region of the brain the imaging of which identifies psychopaths, but since they misdefined the word and are using a neurological proxy for psychopathy rather than a look at the person's life as a psychiatrist would do, I am skeptical of that claim as well.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
hmmmmm,well if I go by what you just said there is defiantly a difference in being a Empath. thanks for your input.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I'm neither religious in the classical sense nor really an atheist.

And I have low empathy (according to the online test on some psychiatrist's website I took a while ago it's so low that I'm very likely an autist - who knows how reliable that test is, though).

One of my favorite artists once said he can't be a psychopath because he enjoys other people's suffering too much - implying that if you're a psychopath you simply don't care about how others feel, so if you're a sadist you can't be a psychopath. I can quite relate to those words, even if my own reason for not considering myself a psychopath are additionally also that I'm too much of a coward to fit the typical traits.

I don't find my lack of empathy to have much anything to do with me being driven to theism or away from it.

.
Also, the definition of psychopathy is suspect. The article read, "atheists were found to be most aligned with psychopaths — people classified as such due to their lack of empathy."

That's incorrect. That is the definition of sociopathy. Psychopathy adds malice and a proclivity for violence, especially sadistic violence to bare sociopathy, or indifference to the harm that comes to others. The sociopath might hurt you say by embezzling funds from you because he doesn't care what harm comes to you, but his purpose is to get your money, not to hurt you. The psychopath will harm you because that is his purpose. That is his pleasure.

Apparently, this was also assessed by fMRI, as if there is a region of the brain the imaging of which identifies psychopaths, but since they misdefined the word and are using a neurological proxy for psychopathy rather than a look at the person's life as a psychiatrist would do, I am skeptical of that claim as well.
Yah, the article sounds quite click-baity and thereby unreliable.

Is that definition of socio- vs psychopathy you are mentioning the official medical one? Pretty sure I read some other one before, more along the lines of psychopathy being lack of empathy, sociopathy being the same but with more cunning. The definitions on Wikipedia are different from both yours and mine.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
For the secular humanist, both empathy and analytical thinking are fundamental virtues, and both are part of the rational ethics of secular humanism. It's not an either-or-matter.

Furthermore, the inability to think analytically doesn't make one's thinking empathetic. It just means that one is going through life without being able to think critically, which is analogous to the horse with no rider, the horse being the emotions, desires, and impulses, the rider being the element that guides the emotions in an effort to maximize the good ones and minimize the undesired outcomes. If you can do that well, with a little luck, you'll navigate through life relatively smoothly. If you can't think well, you make many more mistakes and errors of judgment, perhaps marrying into an abusive relationship, or drunk driving and paralyzing or killing yourself, or accidental drug overdosing, or dropping out of high school. These are the kinds of mistakes people who act on urge unrestrained by the reins of reason make much more often, leading to lives of regret and insecurity.

Finally, my first 55 years of life were spent in America, the next 10 in Mexico. The two are very different when it comes to religion. It's the American experience that informs my opinions of religion, which I confess is a limited perspective. But in America, it's not the Christians with the empathy. It's the secular humanists. Which kind of man has empathy for the lives of women - their rights, their social equality, their equal pay? It was the Christians that defeated the Equal Rights Amendment a few decades back.

Who is demonizing and marginalizing the lives of homosexuals, calling them immoral and appropriately hell-bound, and who is taking the empathetic position that since I wouldn't want to be mistreated like that, I won't do it to others?

Who is taking the side of the transgendered person who wants to be able to choose a bathroom that he or she feels comfortable in, and who is telling them to take a hike and refusing to use the pronouns of the preferred gender?

Consider the white supremacists marching at Charlottesville, and the antifa counter-protesting them. Which is the empathetic group, and which are selfish, hateful, bigots? Which group do you think has the greater concentration of Christians? Which has the greater concentration of secular humanists?

We're not told (or I skimmed over) what criteria were used to assess for empathy other than a certain region on a functional magnetic resonance brain scan (fMRI) becoming more active.



Also, the definition of psychopathy is suspect. The article read, "atheists were found to be most aligned with psychopaths — people classified as such due to their lack of empathy."

That's incorrect. That is the definition of sociopathy. Psychopathy adds malice and a proclivity for violence, especially sadistic violence to bare sociopathy, or indifference to the harm that comes to others. The sociopath might hurt you say by embezzling funds from you because he doesn't care what harm comes to you, but his purpose is to get your money, not to hurt you. The psychopath will harm you because that is his purpose. That is his pleasure.

Apparently, this was also assessed by fMRI, as if there is a region of the brain the imaging of which identifies psychopaths, but since they misdefined the word and are using a neurological proxy for psychopathy rather than a look at the person's life as a psychiatrist would do, I am skeptical of that claim as well.

What you say is mostly correct, imo. But I am curious to know as to what worldview will motivate a secular humanist towards empathy?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
As expected.

For a true religious person, being empathetic is more important than the need to demonstrate individual smart. Atheists OTOH are smarter but are more likely psychopaths.

Religious people are less smart but atheists are psychopaths

Christian Televangelists. Something is not right with those people.

Catholic Church. Brrr.... It's history. Best not learn what the Iron Maiden was.

Ireland. All those Protestants and Catholics having a good romp out there.

Salem . Burn the witch.

The Inquisition. Nobody escapes the Inquisition.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Christian Televangelists. Something is not right with those people.

Catholic Church. Brrr.... It's history. Best not learn what the Iron Maiden was.

Ireland. All those Protestants and Catholics having a good romp out there.

Salem . Burn the witch.

The Inquisition. Nobody escapes the Inquisition.

Hey bhaiyaa (brother)

India is now ruled by a group who claim to be Hindu. But they are not. So, please distinguish between a religious person and a political group.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I think the last part of the article is most useful:

This is a naive delusion. This already exists in organizations, scientists, and the Baha'i Faith that support the harmony of science and religion, and resolution of the conflict. Those that promote the resolution, like myself, are scientists that advocate Theistic Evolution.

Unfortunately fundamentalist churches, and organizations like the Discovery Institute have no interest in a dialogue nor resolution of the conflict. These advocates of a literal Biblical view misrepresent science particularly the science of abiogenesis and evolution, and Methodological Naturalism as atheistic,

From the perspective of science nothing can be done to compromise the foundation of science, which is Methodological Naturalism, and the theories and hypothesis that have been falsified by scientific methods.
 
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