• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Elohim

1213

Well-Known Member
Ok, I didn't elaborate and meant for the link to do that.
Correct, my understanding is that Yahweh is always translated as Lord in the bible. Elohim apparently comes from the 10 northern tribes scriptures and Yahweh from the southern 2 tribes. When the north was conquered, the two were combined into what we have now, and hence the lack of consistency in some of the stories in Genesis, particularly Chapter 1 from the north, and chapter 2 of the southern wrt the name of God.

Ok, and thank you. I have also thought sometimes, maybe Elohim is the true name. Maybe it can be so. I don’t see this a problem, but I think it would be good to be careful with it, because it can have other meanings also in the Bible.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ok, and thank you. I have also thought sometimes, maybe Elohim is the true name. Maybe it can be so. I don’t see this a problem, but I think it would be good to be careful with it, because it can have other meanings also in the Bible.
Elohim is not a name -- it's a title. When used for the Creator, it means God (singular, as in a royal we).
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
Elohim is not a name -- it's a title. When used for the Creator, it means God (singular, as in a royal we).
Isaac Asimov has delved into the subject and this is a brief excerpt on his take on the title/name 'Elohim'.

"The Hebrew word, translated here as God, is "Elohim" and that is a plural form which would ordinarily (if tradition were defied) be translated "gods." It is possible that in the very earliest traditions on which the Bible is based, the creation was indeed the work of a plurality of gods. The firmly monotheistic Biblical writers would carefully have eliminated such polytheism, but could not perhaps do anything with the firmly ingrained term "Elohim." It was too familiar to change.

Some hints of polytheism seem to have survived the editing. Thus, after the first created man disobeys God's injunction not to eat of the tree of knowledge, God is quoted as saying: Genesis 3:22. . . . Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

Then, too, still later, when God is concerned over mankind's arrogance in attempting to build a tower that would reach to heaven, He is quoted as saying: Genesis 11:7. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language It is possible to argue that this is not true evidence of early polytheism. God might be viewed as using the royal "we"; or as speaking to an angelic audience; or even, in the Christian view, as speaking in the persons of the Trinity."


If anyone is interested in downloading the full book by Asimov, here is a link...
Asimov's Guide To The Bible The Old And New Testaments ( 2 Vols.) Isaac Asimov : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Isaac Asimov has delved into the subject and this is a brief excerpt on his take on the title/name 'Elohim'.

"The Hebrew word, translated here as God, is "Elohim" and that is a plural form which would ordinarily (if tradition were defied) be translated "gods." It is possible that in the very earliest traditions on which the Bible is based, the creation was indeed the work of a plurality of gods. The firmly monotheistic Biblical writers would carefully have eliminated such polytheism, but could not perhaps do anything with the firmly ingrained term "Elohim." It was too familiar to change.

Some hints of polytheism seem to have survived the editing. Thus, after the first created man disobeys God's injunction not to eat of the tree of knowledge, God is quoted as saying: Genesis 3:22. . . . Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.

Then, too, still later, when God is concerned over mankind's arrogance in attempting to build a tower that would reach to heaven, He is quoted as saying: Genesis 11:7. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language It is possible to argue that this is not true evidence of early polytheism. God might be viewed as using the royal "we"; or as speaking to an angelic audience; or even, in the Christian view, as speaking in the persons of the Trinity."


If anyone is interested in downloading the full book by Asimov, here is a link...
Asimov's Guide To The Bible The Old And New Testaments ( 2 Vols.) Isaac Asimov : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Isaac Asimov is not a scholar of Ancient Hebrew.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, I understand.

Btw, I love "Loving God and my neighbor as myself", it captures the very essence of existence. Is it that quote from Jewish scripture, I know it was a teaching of Jesus?
Yes. Jesus followed second temple Judaism. He basically taught Torah. He quotes from the Torah when he says, "The most important [commandment],” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. ’The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” He is quoting Deuteronomy 6:4-5, and Leviticus 19:18.
 
Last edited:

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I think you may be right, but can you support that with the Bible?
It's not a matter of supporting it with the Bible. The bible USES words, it doesn't define them. The Bible is not a dictionary. I can show you places where Elohim is used for the One God, singular, royal we. But I can't show you a place where the Bible defines ANY word. It's just not that kind of document. Here is an example of the use:

Genesis 2:4

ד אֵלֶּה תוֹלְדוֹת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְהָאָרֶץ, בְּהִבָּרְאָם: בְּיוֹם, עֲשׂוֹת יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים--אֶרֶץ וְשָׁמָיִם. 4 These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.


In this verse it quite clearly refers to the One God, designated by his sacred name, Yad Hey Vav Hey, as "Elohim."
 
Last edited:

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Genesis 2:4
ד אֵלֶּה תוֹלְדוֹת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְהָאָרֶץ, בְּהִבָּרְאָם: בְּיוֹם, עֲשׂוֹת יְהוָה אֱלֹהִים--אֶרֶץ וְשָׁמָיִם. 4 These are the generations of the heaven and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

In this verse it quite clearly refers to the One God, designated by his sacred name, Yad Hey Vav Hey, as "Elohim."

I think that is a good point. And in my opinion, it defines the words at least partially, because it gives them meanings. Because of that, I could say that Elohim is not the proper name. But, I think it can be possible that Elohim was originally also the name of God.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I think that is a good point. And in my opinion, it defines the words at least partially, because it gives them meanings. Because of that, I could say that Elohim is not the proper name. But, I think it can be possible that Elohim was originally also the name of God.
That is correct. Elohim is the title of God. God was not the name. Now, today, for all practical purposes, God IS the name we use (which is why we capitalize it).
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In some places, it means "exalted ones", other places "God" other places "gods", depends on context.
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
Tree of knowledge = exalted ones, not to eat of it means not to envy them and not seek to equalize yourself to their power, majestic light and station of authority. But he approached it thinking it was only told so he doesn't reach their level by deception of Iblis.

,
 

Dogknox20

Well-Known Member
In some places, it means "exalted ones", other places "God" other places "gods", depends on context.
They "Adam & Eve" did not need Knowledge of Good and Evil all they needed was LOVE! They did not love God or each other only love will get you into Paradise! They did not love so they were removed.. They lost access to the "Tree Of Life" so they died! Jesus is "The Life" come down from heaven Jesus is the true Manna!
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
but man was created in the image of god; so then why would the elohim not want that realization to be made?

It's because that station is impossible to be attained by others, and so one is better off being humble and acknowledging the superiority of the exalted ones. To look towards them with envy, would incur loss.

Adam (a) wanting to be highest with God, doubted the exalted ones and the veil of light, but when he fell and recognized the evil, he quickly repented instead of making war against the exalted ones, repented through asking God by their right to be forgiven.

This showed Adam (a) was chosen by God for a reason. Iblis once an Angel, a curse descended on his knowledge, but Adam did a similar if not even greater mistake then Iblis, but repents and turns to God quickly. He is not stubborn and doesn't let himself get destroyed but quickly covers himself with leaves of paradise.

God knew if Adam (a) failed, he would repent and turn back, so his chosen station is not at all diminished by Iblis' lies.
 
Top