El Shaddai

[dybmh]

El, Shaddai, and El-Shaddai are NOT, in my naive and uninformed opinion, names. Exodus 6:3 tells me that they aren't names.
Are the three terms different terms? Yeah, I'd say they are. I think I can show you places where El occurs but not Shaddai and I can show you places where Shaddai but El does not occur and we both know places where El-Shaddai occurs. Three different terms = three different entities??? I think not.
As far as I'm concerned El, Shaddai, and El-Shaddai refer to one and the same entity, and anybody who says they don't is a polytheist in my book.

Agreed. I hope I didn't imply anything polytheistic.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Can we agree that El Shaddai is a title then?

Yup; ... wait a minute, ... is there a difference in your dictionary between El Shaddai and El-Shaddai?

 

[Terry Sampson]

I hope I didn't imply anything polytheistic.

If you did, I'll let others beat on you for it.

 

[dybmh]

Yup; ... wait a minute, ... is there a difference in your dictionary between El Shaddai and El-Shaddai?

Well.. I'm not using a dictionary, but, those two ( from my POV ) are the same.

If you did, I'll let others beat on you for it.

Thanks.

 

[Terry Sampson]

So, where are we at?
I think we agree that El, Shaddai, and El Shaddai (with or without the hyphen) are titles that refer to the same entity.
My position is that El = God; Shaddai = Almighty; and El Shaddai = God Almighty or Almighty God.
Your position, is, if I have it right, that you prefer "of Mercy" or "Merciful" to my "Almighty".
IMO, "Almighty" does not diminish any of God's characteristics. However, again IMO, "of Mercy" or "Merciful" narrows the focus on His nature somewhat.

 

[dybmh]

So, where are we at?
I think we agree that El, Shaddai, and El Shaddai (with or without the hyphen) are titles that refer to the same entity.
My position is that El = God; Shaddai = Almighty; and El Shaddai = God Almighty or Almighty God.
Your position, is, if I have it right, that you prefer "of Mercy" or "Merciful" to my "Almighty".
IMO, "Almighty" does not diminish any of God's characteristics. However, again IMO, "of Mercy" or "Merciful" narrows the focus on His nature somewhat.

No, but close.

In order for something to be All-mighty it needs to include mercy/generosity. My position is that Shaddai on its own does not include this. It is only-mighty, not All-mighty.

Here it is broken out from our earthly perspective:
El - Generous YHVH
Shaddai - Mighty YHVH
El-Shaddai - All Mighty YHVH ( Includes both might and generosity ).

I hope it's not confusing that I switched from mercy to generous. I think it's a better match.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I hope it's not confusing that I switched from mercy to generous.

I can deal with it.
My position doesn't change, though. God Almighty is His status as He tells us; He is our Ultimate Authority. We either accept that authority or do not. Whether we do or don't, He still has that authority. That is the foundation for everything that we are told, by Him or His prophets, that we may hope for from Him: be it redemption, mercy, forgiveness, or justice.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Previously, I told you: "I have intentionally and carefully, IMO, limited myself to the Hebrew and English versions of Hebrew scripture. If you want to quibble over the English version, we're done."
You acknowledged my "line in the sand", ... but indicated that there was something about my choice of translations of the 8 specific verses that you base your position on that you would have been willing to quibble over.

Since then, I have reconsidered my "line" and decided to move it in order to give you an opportunity to quibble without concerning yourself over my readiness to terminate our exchange. Because I'm curious to see what it is that you might think is worth quibbling about, I'm ready to yield. Quibble away. But before you do, I've taken the time to collect four different English language translations of the verses you identified as supporting your position. [See below.] Focusing only on what I have copied here, and without searching for my sources of the verses, which do you find worthy?

• Gen. 17:1.
  • Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless"
  • And Abram was ninety-nine years old, and God appeared to Abram, and He said to him, "I am the Almighty God; walk before Me and be perfect.
  • When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD, appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am El Shaddai. Walk in My ways and be blameless."
  • And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him: ‘I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be thou wholehearted."
• Gen. 28:3.
  • May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples.
  • And may the Almighty God bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, and you shall become an assembly of peoples.
  • May El Shaddai bless you, make you fertile and numerous, so that you become an assembly of peoples.
  • And God Almighty bless thee, and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a congregation of peoples;
• Gen. 35:11.
  • God also said to him, "I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you."
  • And God said to him, "I am the Almighty God; be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a multitude of nations shall come into existence from you, and kings shall come forth from your loins."
  • And God said to him, "I am El Shaddai. Be fertile and increase; A nation, yea an assembly of nations, Shall descend from you. Kings shall issue from your loins."
  • And God said unto him: ‘I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; ..."
• Gen. 43.14.
  • "...and may God Almighty grant you compassion in the sight of the man, so that he will release to you your other brother and Benjamin. And as for me, if I am bereaved of my children, I am bereaved."
  • And may the Almighty God grant you compassion before the man, and he will release to you your other brother and Benjamin, and as for me as I am bereaved, I am bereaved."
  • And may El Shaddai dispose the man to mercy toward you, that he may release to you your other brother, as well as Benjamin. As for me, if I am to be bereaved, I shall be bereaved."
  • "... and God Almighty give you mercy before the man, that he may release unto you your other brother and Benjamin. And as for me, if I be bereaved of my children, I am bereaved.’
• Gen. 48:3.
  • Then Jacob said to Joseph, "God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, ..."
  • And Jacob said to Joseph, "Almighty God appeared to me in Luz, in the land of Canaan, and He blessed me."
  • And Jacob said to Joseph, "El Shaddai appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and He blessed me,..."
  • And Jacob said unto Joseph: ‘God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me ..."
• Ex. 6:3.
  • ... and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.
  • I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob with [the name] Almighty God, but [with] My name YHWH, I did not become known to them.
  • "I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make Myself known to them by My name יהוה."
  • " ... and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name יהוה I made Me not known to them."
• Ezekiel 10:5.
  • Moreover, the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.
  • And the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard until the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.
  • The sound of the cherubs' wings could be heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of El Shaddai when He speaks.
  • And the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard even to the outer court, as the voice of God Almighty when He speaketh.
• Job 8:5.
  • If you would seek God And implore the compassion of the Almighty,
  • If you seek God and supplicate the Almighty,
  • But if you seek God And supplicate the Almighty,
  • If thou wouldest seek earnestly unto God, And make thy supplication to the Almighty;

 

[Terry Sampson]

@Estro Felino
FYI, in case you're unaware of this.