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Featured El Shaddai

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Estro Felino, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Nah, those are different gods. I mean in the Greek of the OT.

    There's theos, and kyrie eleision.... Any others?
     
  2. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Of course, I was only joking.
     
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  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That is entirely irrelevant to Sarna's point, but your ability to count is noted.
     
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  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    I actually had help with the counting. :rolleyes::):D
     
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  6. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    You are wrong.
    No you are wrong.

    You are absolutely wrong.

    Source you want brother? Read Sanhedrin page 481. Or read The Jerusalem Talmud by Guggenheimer, page 254.

    Cheers.
     
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    El and Eloh are both. Please tell me if Eli is not a singular. Please tell me what would be the plural of Mahallelel.

    Brother. At least read some book prior to making this kind of claim. Maybe read Sources of Christianity by Catherine Keller. Read the E source by Wellhausen in the Documentary Hypothesis.

    Peace.
     
  8. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    • The New American Standard Bible [http://www.lockman.org/nasb/]
      • Since its completion in 1971, the New American Standard Bible has been widely embraced as “the most literally accurate English translation” from the original languages. Millions of people, students, scholars, pastors, missionaries, and laypersons alike, trust the NASB, learning from it and applying it to the challenges of their daily lives. Discover what the original text says, word for word.
      • In 1995 the NASB was updated, increasing clarity and readability. Vocabulary, grammar, and sentence structure were carefully reviewed for greater understanding and smoother reading. Trust, discover and enjoy the NASB for yourself today.
      • The New American Standard Bible has been produced with the conviction that the words of Scripture, as originally penned in the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, were inspired by God. Since they are the eternal Word of God, the Holy Scriptures speak with fresh power to each generation, to give wisdom that leads to salvation so that men and women may serve Christ for the glory of God.
      • The updated NASB represents revisions and refinements recommended over the last several years and incorporates thorough research based on current English usage. And rest assured, the translators and consultants who contributed to the updated NASB are, as always, conservative Bible scholars who have doctorates in biblical languages, theology, or other advanced degrees. Representing a variety of denominational backgrounds, the translators of the updated NASB meticulously followed all the same tried-and-true safeguards as set forth in the original NASB, which took the NASB translators nearly 10 years to complete.
      • In preparation, numerous linguistic tools and literature of biblical scholarship were consulted. Decisions about English renderings were made by consensus of a team composed of educators and pastors who were directed by their faith that the original words of Scripture were inspired by God. Therefore, their work was treated reverently and carefully, as changes were kept to a minimum. Completed sections of work were passed to critical consultants for a thorough review of the translation. The work passed between committees on numerous occasions before final review and revision in plenary sessions.
      • In perfecting the updated NASB, more than 20 translators spent nearly three years scrutinizing the NASB in order to modernize and maintain it in accordance with the most recent research on the oldest and best manuscripts. Thus, some passages have been updated for even greater fidelity to the original manuscripts.
      • The translators do not attempt to interpret Scripture through translation. Instead, the NASB translation team adhered to the principles of literal translation. This is the most exacting and demanding method of translation, requiring a word-for-word translation that is both accurate and readable. This method follows the word and sentence patterns of the original authors in order to enable the reader to study Scripture in its most literal format and to experience the individual personalities of those who penned the original manuscripts. For example, one can directly compare and contrast the simple eloquent style of John with the deep complexity of Paul.
      • Instead of the translators telling the reader what to think, the updated NASB provides the most precise English translation with which to conduct a personal journey through the Word of God.
    (To be continued)
     
  9. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    • In the NASB, translators used "Almighty" in 58 verses of their Bible.
    1. Genesis 17:1 - Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; Walk before Me, and be blameless."
    2. Genesis 28:3 - “May God Almighty bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples."
    3. Genesis 35:11 - God also said to him, “I am God Almighty; Be fruitful and multiply; A nation and a company of nations shall come from you, And kings shall come forth from you."
    4. Genesis 43:14 - "...and may God Almighty grant you compassion in the sight of the man, so that he will release to you your other brother and Benjamin. And as for me, if I am bereaved of my children, I am bereaved.”
    5. Genesis 48:3 - Then Jacob said to Joseph, “God Almighty appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me, ..."
    6. Genesis 49:25 - From the God of your father who helps you, And by the Almighty who blesses you With blessings of heaven above, Blessings of the deep that lies beneath, Blessings of the breasts and of the womb.
    7. Exodus 6:3 - "...and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them."
    8. Numbers 24:4 - The oracle of him who hears the words of God, Who sees the vision of the Almighty, Falling down, yet having his eyes uncovered,
    9. Numbers 24:16 - The oracle of him who hears the words of God, And knows the knowledge of the Most High, Who sees the vision of the Almighty, Falling down, yet having his eyes uncovered.
    10. Ruth 1:20 - She said to them, “Do not call me Naomi; call me Mara, for the Almighty has dealt very bitterly with me.
    11. Ruth 1:21 - “I went out full, but the LORD has brought me back empty. Why do you call me Naomi, since the LORD has witnessed against me and the Almighty has afflicted me?”
    12. Job 5:17 - “Behold, how happy is the man whom God reproves, So do not despise the discipline of the Almighty."
    13. Job 6:4 - “For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, Their poison my spirit drinks; The terrors of God are arrayed against me."
    14. Job 6:14 - “For the despairing man there should be kindness from his friend; So that he does not forsake the fear of the Almighty.
    15. Job 8:3 - “Does God pervert justice? Or does the Almighty pervert what is right?
    16. Job 8:5 - “If you would seek God And implore the compassion of the Almighty,
    17. Job 11:7 - “Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?
    18. Job 13:3 - “But I would speak to the Almighty, And I desire to argue with God.
    19. Job 15:25 - Because he has stretched out his hand against God And conducts himself arrogantly against the Almighty.
    20. Job 21:15 - ‘Who is the Almighty, that we should serve Him, And what would we gain if we entreat Him?’
    21. Job 21:20 - “Let his own eyes see his decay, And let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.
    22. Job 22:3 [ “Is there any pleasure to the Almighty if you are righteous, Or profit if you make your ways perfect?
    23. Job 22:17 - “They said to God, ‘Depart from us!’ And ‘What can the Almighty do to them?’
    24. Job 22:23 - “If you return to the Almighty, you will be restored; If you remove unrighteousness far from your tent,
    25. Job 22:25 - Then the Almighty will be your gold And choice silver to you.
    26. Job 22:26 - “For then you will delight in the Almighty And lift up your face to God.
    27. Job 23:16 - “It is God who has made my heart faint, And the Almighty who has dismayed me,
    28. Job 24:1 - “Why are times not stored up by the Almighty, And why do those who know Him not see His days?
    29. Job 27:2 - “As God lives, who has taken away my right, And the Almighty, who has embittered my soul,
    30. Job 27:10 - “Will he take delight in the Almighty? Will he call on God at all times?
    31. Job 27:11 - “I will instruct you in the power of God; What is with the Almighty I will not conceal.
    32. Job 27:13 - “This is the portion of a wicked man from God, And the inheritance which tyrants receive from the Almighty.
    33. Job 29:5 - When the Almighty was yet with me, And my children were around me;
    34. Job 31:2 - “And what is the portion of God from above Or the heritage of the Almighty from on high?
    35. Job 31:35 - “Oh that I had one to hear me! Behold, here is my signature; Let the Almighty answer me! And the indictment which my adversary has written,
    36. Job 32:8 - “But it is a spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding.
    37. Job 33:4 - “The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
    38. Job 34:10 - “Therefore, listen to me, you men of understanding. Far be it from God to do wickedness, And from the Almighty to do wrong.
    39. Job 34:12 - “Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.
    40. Job 35:13 - “Surely God will not listen to an empty cry, Nor will the Almighty regard it.
    41. Job 37:23 - “The Almighty — we cannot find Him; He is exalted in power And He will not do violence to justice and abundant righteousness.
    42. Job 40:2 - “Will the faultfinder contend with the Almighty? Let him who reproves God answer it.”
    43. Psalms 68:14 - When the Almighty scattered the kings there, It was snowing in Zalmon.
    44. Psalms 91:1 - He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.
    45. Isaiah 13:6 - Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.
    46. Ezekiel 1:24 - I also heard the sound of their wings like the sound of abundant waters as they went, like the voice of the Almighty, a sound of tumult like the sound of an army camp; whenever they stood still, they dropped their wings.
    47. Ezekiel 10:5 - Moreover, the sound of the wings of the cherubim was heard as far as the outer court, like the voice of God Almighty when He speaks.
    48. Joel 1:15 - Alas for the day! For the day of the LORD is near, And it will come as destruction from the Almighty.
    49. 2 Corinthians 6:18 - “And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty.
    50. Revelation 1:8 - “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
    51. Revelation 4:8 - And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME.”
    52. Revelation 11:17 - saying, “We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign.
    53. Revelation 15:3 - And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, “Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations!
    54. Revelation 16:7 - And I heard the altar saying, “Yes, O Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.”
    55. Revelation 16:14 - for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
    56. Revelation 19:6 - Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.
    57. Revelation 19:15 - From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
    58. Revelation 21:22 - I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
    (To be continued)
     
  10. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    • The Christian "Almighty" in Greek [English translations in previous post.]
      • 2 Corinthians 6:18 - καὶ ἔσομαι ὑμῖν εἰς πατέρα καὶ ὑμεῖς ἔσεσθέ μοι εἰς υἱοὺς καὶ θυγατέρας λέγει κύριος παντοκράτωρ
      • Revelation 1:8 - Ἐγώ εἰμι τὸ Ἄλφα καὶ τὸ Ὦ, λέγει κύριος ὁ θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.
      • Revelation 4:8 - καὶ τὰ τέσσαρα ζῷα, ἓν καθ᾽ ἓν αὐτῶν ἔχων ἀνὰ πτέρυγας ἕξ, κυκλόθεν καὶ ἔσωθεν γέμουσιν ὀφθαλμῶν, καὶ ἀνάπαυσιν οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς λέγοντες,
        Ἅγιος ἅγιος ἅγιος
        κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ,
        ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος.
      • Revelation 11:17 - λέγοντες, Εὐχαριστοῦμέν σοι, κύριε ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν, ὅτι εἴληφας τὴν δύναμίν σου τὴν μεγάλην καὶ ἐβασίλευσας.
      • Revelation 15:3 - καὶ ᾄδουσιν τὴν ᾠδὴν Μωϋσέως τοῦ δούλου τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν ᾠδὴν τοῦ ἀρνίου λέγοντες,
        Μεγάλα καὶ θαυμαστὰ τὰ ἔργα σου,
        κύριε ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ
        δίκαιαι καὶ ἀληθιναὶ αἱ ὁδοί σου,
        ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν ἐθνῶν
      • Revelation 16:7 - καὶ ἤκουσα τοῦ θυσιαστηρίου λέγοντος, Ναὶ κύριε ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ἀληθιναὶ καὶ δίκαιαι αἱ κρίσεις σου.
      • Revelation 16:14 - εἰσὶν γὰρ πνεύματα δαιμονίων ποιοῦντα σημεῖα, ἃ ἐκπορεύεται ἐπὶ τοὺς βασιλεῖς τῆς οἰκουμένης ὅλης συναγαγεῖν αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸν πόλεμον τῆς ἡμέρας τῆς μεγάλης τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ παντοκράτορος.
      • Revelation 19:6 - καὶ ἤκουσα ὡς φωνὴν ὄχλου πολλοῦ καὶ ὡς φωνὴν ὑδάτων πολλῶν καὶ ὡς φωνὴν βροντῶν ἰσχυρῶν λεγόντων, Ἁλληλουϊά, ὅτι ἐβασίλευσεν κύριος ὁ θεὸς [ἡμῶν] παντοκράτωρ.
      • Revelation 19:15 - καὶ ἐκ τοῦ στόματος αὐτοῦ ἐκπορεύεται ῥομφαία ὀξεῖα, ἵνα ἐν αὐτῇ πατάξῃ τὰ ἔθνη, καὶ αὐτὸς ποιμανεῖ αὐτοὺς ἐν ῥάβδῳ σιδηρᾷ, καὶ αὐτὸς πατεῖ τὴν ληνὸν τοῦ οἴνου τοῦ θυμοῦ τῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ παντοκράτορος,
      • Revelation 21:22 - Καὶ ναὸν οὐκ εἶδον ἐν αὐτῇ, ὁ γὰρ κύριος ὁ θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ ναὸς αὐτῆς ἐστιν καὶ τὸ ἀρνίον.
    (To be continued)
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Page 481? Seriously? :D (see here)
    Page 254? Seriously? :D (see here)

    This kind of silly high school pedantry serves no one, least of all you. Just stop it.
     
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  12. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Nah. Cannot stop. And yes. Seriously.

    Mate. You made some absolutely false claims, just pure assumptions, and when direct sources are given you cut and paste some links to amazon? Its less than kindergarten childishness and of course such immaturity obviously ends up with ad hominem as nature.

    Here you go. If you want the full reference and a snapshot of the reference unlike your bogus cookups and ad hominem. Screenshot 2020-09-11 at 5.09.09 PM.jpg

    Read. The Jerusalem talmud Neziqin the Sanhedrin chapter 7 by Heinrich W. Guggenheimer Page 254.

    If you learn some humility maybe you will do some research before making things up. This is nothing new mate. Any student in the field of study will know this at the most basic level so do some research.

    Good day to you.
     
  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Read your own source properly. Screenshot 2020-09-11 at 5.18.01 PM.png
     
  15. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    <ignore-list>

    so be it​

    </ignore-list>
     
  16. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Of course. This is the standard of human beings. Make stuff up, when proven wrong, insult, then yeah block them on Facebook if not a forum and think that's an achievement.

    Grow up.
     
  17. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Regarding the Talmud citations, I can certainly look those up, but, I need them listed as Tractate and folio. I'll lookup Sanhedrin 481, but if it's a page# and not a folio then it probably won't match up with what I have here. Same problem with the Jerusalem Talmud reference. Most kindly, I need a Tractate and folio to review it.

    In the meantime, I'll find sources to back up my claim that E-l is not divine might.

    :)
     
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  18. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Read. The Jerusalem talmud Neziqin the Sanhedrin chapter 7 by Heinrich W. Guggenheimer Page 254.

    Screenshot 2020-09-11 at 5.09.09 PM.jpg
     
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Bro, come on. That's a rude assumption. I have read a lot on this subject matter.
     
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  20. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist

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    Ok, I see the screenshot, I don't have that version. I have the artscroll JT. I'd like to see if they associate E-l with Chesed. And I need the folio for that.

    But if possible, can we step back and agree that Chesed is kindness. If so, then I'm sure I can find sources that back E-l is Chesed (kindness) and E-lohim is Gevurah (might).

    To be honest, I think this confusion all stems from the similarity in pronunciation of the divine name E-l. The divine names E-l S-haddai and E-lohim do not start with the same name. It's a common misconception. The vowels are different. But people who don't study the Hebrew in these names look at them in english and think the E-l in E-l S-haddai and the E-l in E-lohim are the same. But they're not.
     
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