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El Shaddai
- Thread starter Estro Felino
- Start date
Nah, we love you reallyOK, OK, maybe they should be left in Hebrew untranslated.
Or just ignore me.
I can't understand Hebrew.OK, OK, maybe they should be left in Hebrew untranslated.
Or just ignore me.
Only Greek and Latin
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firedragon
Veteran Member
In your scholarship, what is the translation of Ho Theos into Hebrew?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Have you considered what "EL" means?
Lord, mainly.
It depends...
In the Septuagint the Genesis starts with "En archì epoiesin 'o Theòs...etc etc
And in the Hebrew Bible the Genesis is "bereśit barà Elohim" etc etc.
So according to the Septuagint, 'o Theòs= Elohim.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I meant the meaning brother. Not what it represents. If what a word represents is the whole foundation of a thesis, then the OP is not considering what it represents but is going to the meaning of the word.
Hope you understand the query.
May I know if you studied Greek or Latin, first?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Again, you are giving what it represents. I asked for direct translation. Not what it represents.
Theos is not equivalent to Elohim in meaning.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Not relevant. And if you think I am arguing with you you are wrong. And asking me what I have studied is not relevant. If that is your answer to a question, there is no point going any further.
If you have not pondered over the questions I asked, ponder over it. If you know something, teach me. Dont ask me if I have studied Greek or Latin. I didnt even ask anything in Latin. So this completely irrelevant.
Cheers.
In Excursus 11 of the JPS Commentary: Genesis, Nahum Sarna makes a couple of interesting observations:
We seem to be left with more or less informed conjecture ...
- The divine name appears nine times in the Torah, of which three are in poetic texts (Gen. 49:25; Num. 24:4,16). All but two of the Bible's other thirty-nine usages are likewise poetic (Prophets, Psalms, and Job). The prose exceptions (Ruth 1:20-21) are more apparent than real since the Book of Ruth possesses a poetic substratum and frequently displays archaisms. These statistics have an important bearing on the question of the antiquity of usage. The overwhelming appearance in poetic contexts points a priori to a venerable tradition, for Hebrew poetry tends to preserve or consciously to employ early forms of speech.
- Significantly, of the vast store of biblical personal names, only three are constructed with the element Shaddai. These are Shedeur (=? Shaddai-Ur), Zurishaddai, and Ammishaddai - all appearing solely in the lists of Numbers 1-2. Each is the father of a tribal representative at the time of the Exodus.
In other words, the divine name Shaddai lost its vitality in Israel with the advent of Moses and was preserved only as a literary relic in poetic compositions. ... The great antiquity of the name and its obsolescence in Israel in the Mosaic period explain why there are no consistent traditions as to its meaning and why the ancient versions have no uniform rendering.
We seem to be left with more or less informed conjecture ...
^ and this is one of the things that makes Torah so interesting.
My question is relevant because I can only answer you about Greek / Latin words.
For Hebrew words, ask people here who know Hebrew.
I have no wish to derail this thread but I'd love to see you develop this point in a thread of its own.
firedragon
Veteran Member
In Excursus 11 of the JPS Commentary: Genesis, Nahum Sarna makes a couple of interesting observations:
He concludes:
- The divine name appears nine times in the Torah, of which three are in poetic texts (Gen. 49:25; Num. 24:4,16). All but two of the Bible's other thirty-nine usages are likewise poetic (Prophets, Psalms, and Job). The prose exceptions (Ruth 1:20-21) are more apparent than real since the Book of Ruth possesses a poetic substratum and frequently displays archaisms. These statistics have an important bearing on the question of the antiquity of usage. The overwhelming appearance in poetic contexts points a priori to a venerable tradition, for Hebrew poetry tends to preserve or consciously to employ early forms of speech.
- Significantly, of the vast store of biblical personal names, only three are constructed with the element Shaddai. These are Shedeur (=? Shaddai-Ur), Zurishaddai, and Ammishaddai - all appearing solely in the lists of Numbers 1-2. Each is the father of a tribal representative at the time of the Exodus.
In other words, the divine name Shaddai lost its vitality in Israel with the advent of Moses and was preserved only as a literary relic in poetic compositions. ... The great antiquity of the name and its obsolescence in Israel in the Mosaic period explain why there are no consistent traditions as to its meaning and why the ancient versions have no uniform rendering.
We seem to be left with more or less informed conjecture ...
^ and this is one of the things that makes Torah so interesting.
Awesome.
^ deviant Noahide!Nah, we love you really
I fully agree. But the thread topic was about El Shaddai.
No-one's ever denied that
firedragon
Veteran Member
My question is relevant because I can only answer you about Greek / Latin words.
For Hebrew words, ask people here who know Hebrew.
Alright. Brother, in Hebrew, El means power or might. Elohim means powers or the plural of might. El Shaddai has El which in its root means "power" which you have not considered. Thus, this mountain matter has been addressed by the meaning of El, which is "power". I understand that El is directly represented by Ho Theos, but Theos means divinity, El means Power. The root meanings are different. In your analysis I would urge that you include this part rather than dismissing it as Elohim is represented by Ho Theos in the septuagint.
Mind you I am no expert in Hebrew and the Jewish brothers here can of course correct me and anyone else since there are some pretty scholarly Jews here. I dont mean this in any derogatory manner but Jews are generally far more educated in their scripture than any other average person.
So lets hear what they have to say.
Bottomline is though El or Elohim is directly represents the word God, or Ho Theos, there is a root meaning to the word. And that itself represents "power" or "might". Every single combination of words that represents God or even another persons God in the Hebrew Bible with the word El in it represents power. This is one of the reasons El Shaddai though some scholars like McKim would translate it as God, the one of the mountains, this word God here is actually meaning "Power". So does El Elyon and Elohim.
I honestly dont know how Ho Theos is translated into Hebrew because these two are very different languages. The Arabic word Allah is a direct translation of the Ho Theos exactly. Theos means iLah or Aluhia in arabic. But I dont know the Hebrew direct translation of the meaning of Ho Theos.
Anyway, my belief is that the Greek language is superimposed into a Hebrew text and it misrepresents the original meaning. You are right. But when you go to roots, go to the roots of everything.
Ho Theos as I understand can be directly translated in to Aramaic as Alaha and I can relate to that closely.
Cheers.