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egyptian symbolism has perfectly legitimate Christian parallels

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
On another thread clear has made this claim, that egyptian symbolism parrallels christians. However, as his posts have become increasingly irrelevant to the main topic of the thread I've created this, in hopes that he will provide evidence for his claim here and stop further derailing the premise of the original thread.

Part of the point in this exercise is that the egyptian symbolism has perfectly legitimate Christian parallels. For example, the Christians USE the same ANK symbol as the egyptians, and they COMBINE symbols to create new and different concepts just as we combine different stock symbols in a 26 letter alphabet in various ways to create words (which ultimately represent concepts). The egyptologists are able to match stock symbols just as any kindergartner child can match the letter "A" on a page with one on another piece of paper. It is a "lower level" matching game. To suggest the egyptologist Deveria "translated" the document given him in the last century simply reflects a huge overstatement. To Deveria, MOST of a redacted hebrew story, using non-stock egyptian symbols WOULD HAVE BEEN "gibberish".

The hebrew redactor would have combined symbols as best he could, IN THE SAME WAY THE EGYPTIANS THEMSELVES DID THIS, and just as languages continue to do today. We SHARE words and they become part of our new society. The Germans will, for example, OFTEN use the american word "Perfekt" (meaning "perfect") rather than the german word "volkomen" (meaning "perfect") and it is acceptible to do so.

Clear
eineisvivi
 

Clear

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I believe that humanist heart has become uncomfortable with the turn a different thread is taking as we are discussing his claim regarding what abilities the ancient egyptologists had in being able to translate ancient egyptian (as it all applies to whether Joseph Smith was a con-artist, or a prophet of God). I do NOT plan on spending any time in this thread.

If you are interested in parallels between egyptian-christian religions, then I'll simply refer you to this link : http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/comparative-religion/76640-egypt-monotheist.html , otherwise I will continue in the current thread which is THIS link : http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...tes/83577-joseph-smith-proven-con-artist.html

clear
 
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EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Excuse me? I believe you meant to say that ' Christian symbolism has perfectly legitimate (E)egyptian parallels?
 

slave2six

Substitious
Good. The OP is meaningless anyways. To say that different cultures or religions use the same base for concepts, terminology, and symbolism is like saying that carpenters, furniture makers and paper makers all use wood. So what? We work with the elements that are available to us.
 

Hawk1

Hawk
Slightly off subject (as this doesn't relate to symbolism), but there is a line of thought that states that the etymology of the word Amen that we use so often in prayer, is actually from the Egyptian god Amun-Ra (which found it's way into the Hebrew and thus into Christianity).
I'm sure that if we delve further into the actual bible, we will find some other parallels that will raise many more questions.
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Excuse me? I believe you meant to say that ' Christian symbolism has perfectly legitimate (E)egyptian parallels?
I think you're right EtuMalku.
Plus, I think the Clear is quite ignorant of the Egyptian religion. Is is not Monotheist, it is Polytheist hence the many different gods. There where some Pharaohs that tried to make it a Monotheist nation, but that didn't stop people from worshiping the other gods. See Polytheist, not Monotheist.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
I think you're right EtuMalku.
Plus, I think the Clear is quite ignorant of the Egyptian religion. Is is not Monotheist, it is Polytheist hence the many different gods. .

Clear's ignorance is not specific to egytian history or religion, it seems to apply to all his posts. There's hardly any point in debating with him, as he ignores facts and cherry-picks your posts, rambling on and on about irrelevant topics to confuse the issue of the original post which you will see if he actually posts here, but that would require him to stop defiling the other thread with his irrlevant posts and stop ignoring this post as he does all relevant facts.
 
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Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Clear's ignorance is not specific to egytian history or religion, it seems to apply to all his posts. There's hardly any point in debating with him, as he ignores facts and cherry-picks your posts, rambling on and on about irrelevant topics to confuse the issue of the original post which you will see if he actually posts here, but that would require him to stop defiling the other thread with his irrlevant posts and stop ignoring this post as he does all relevant facts.
Oh I agree with that. I only made mention of his Knowledge about the Egyptian because that what this thread seemed to be about.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
Oh I agree with that. I only made mention of his Knowledge about the Egyptian because that what this thread seemed to be about.

Ah, fair enough. Then on that note I'm sure you'll agree it's particularly ammusing that clear claims that leading egyptologists have no ability to read egyptian hyroglyphs, lol.
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Ah, fair enough. Then on that note I'm sure you'll agree it's particularly amusing that clear claims that leading egyptologists have no ability to read egyptian hyroglyphs, lol.
Yeah that is amusing. If they didn't know how to read it, then how do we know so much about Egypt? lol.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Ah, fair enough. Then on that note I'm sure you'll agree it's particularly ammusing that clear claims that leading egyptologists have no ability to read egyptian hyroglyphs, lol.
I would love to see you actually quote what Clear stated, instead of putting words into his mouth. Then those people who are actually crazy enough to take what you're saying at face value can judge for themselves.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Plus, I think the Clear is quite ignorant of the Egyptian religion. Is is not Monotheist, it is Polytheist hence the many different gods.
Where did Clear make this claim? That is really oversimplifying what he said. Have you actually read any of his posts on the subject? They are well-researched and well-documented. I'm seriously baffled as to how anyone could call him ignorant on this subject.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I don't put words in people's mouth, you seem to be confusing me for clear.
I don't believe so. Would you mind quoting him so that people can check the context in which he supposedly said what you're attributing to him? That sounds like a fair enough request to me.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
I don't believe so. Would you mind quoting him so that people can check the context in which he supposedly said what you're attributing to him? That sounds like a fair enough request to me.

Yes, it certianly is. In referrence to the renouned scholars who rendered opinions of the papyri in relation to smith's translation, this was clear's responce.

Idea:

His "egyptologists" that he was so proud of, could not even read egyptian nor translate it, yet he uses them as "experts' to render their opinions regarding an egyptian translation.

clear
'eivinetwtw

Exactly as i said, claiming leading egytologists can not read egyption markings. You'll also note the word 'proud', as clear continues even now to assume to know my emotions and work his beliefs of me into his posts; rather unwarrented.
 
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Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Where did Clear make this claim? That is really oversimplifying what he said. Have you actually read any of his posts on the subject? They are well-researched and well-documented. I'm seriously baffled as to how anyone could call him ignorant on this subject.
Yeah, well when he makes the comment that the Religion of Egypt is Monotheistic then his well-documented research fall though the floor and make him look ignorant on the Subject. Because it's not Monotheistic. And if you wish to know where he say that Egypt was Monotheist, he posted a link to a thread that talks about it and basically saying it agrees with him.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
I believe that humanist heart has become uncomfortable with the turn a different thread is taking
clear

Exactly clear, the key phrase there being 'the turn the thread is taking', as in the fact that the topics now discussed are not relevant to the original topic, as I already said. Way to echo what others say and continue your fine tradition of avoiding offering any relevant evidence for your claims.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Yes, it certianly is. In referrence to the renouned scholars who rendered opinions of the papyri in relation to smith's translation, this was clear's responce....

Exactly as i said, claiming leading egytologists can not read egyption markings.
What he said was that the egyptologists you were citing as "experts" could not translate the characters. Egyptology was in its infancy in 1829. While Anthon would almost certainly have been able to decipher some basic hieroglyphics (those being present in the books he had at the time), his understanding of the written Eqyptian language would have been limited at best. The same would have been true of pretty much any Egyptologist in the world at that time.

You'll also note the word 'proud', as clear continues even now to assume to know my emotions and work his beliefs of me into his posts; rather unwarrented.
I think this statement says it all. You just don't like clear.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Yeah, well when he makes the comment that the Religion of Egypt is Monotheistic then his well-documented research fall though the floor and make him look ignorant on the Subject. Because it's not Monotheistic. And if you wish to know where he say that Egypt was Monotheist, he posted a link to a thread that talks about it and basically saying it agrees with him.
Would you please quote clear?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You know, I think I'm going to let clear and the two of you fight this one out. He is entirely capable of supporting his own position, and there are other threads of greater interest to me. Have fun, y'all.
 
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