Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

[River Sea]

It is good.



If by "Mitzvah process" you mean what is it like for Torath Mosheh Jews to keep the mitzvoth of the Torah. It is good because we do mitzvoth as a community.



In community Torah scrolls are copied in the way shown in this video.

This video should be able to help you understand about what you asked about a bar mitzvah.

His name is Bahadar Alast. His Youtube channel can be found at the following link.

https://www.youtube.com/c/BahadorAlast



It is a picture of a part of a Torah scroll. The link to the site is:

תיקון קוראים ספר תורה למסורת תימן | הרב אברהם משיח, רו''ח גבעת שמואל

The following are a few pictures of different types of Torah scrolls from different Jewish communities.

View attachment 67217

I made a mistake and it won't let me edit one word: maybe later it will. Word Mitzvah Milah.

Egyptian exodus proof or slavery?

I need to edit one word I wrote Brit Mitzvah - it's suppose to be Brit Milah.

Brit shalom keeps the male intact (no circumcision), Brit Milah (circumcision)
Not Brit Mitzvah oh how embarrassing

thank you for his name Bahadar Alast I'll watch his youtube channel

I don't know what your thoughts about brit Shalom.,

I learn from you that Jews make their own scrolls, using modern Hebrews letters,

You shown me video Jews making scrolls. I thought that was really interesting.

I use to been able to edit old post, when seeing errors.

Yes I asked you about Mitzvah too., did you make your own scroll or transcribe?

I really enjoy learning the Hebrew letter H. I learn

ה
The yud (the detached left leg) represents G‑d. Spirituality
The other line is the physical world, called the dalet

Ok I'll clean this message up, after I can correct that one word

But letting you know that was a mistake.,

 

[River Sea]

@Ehav4Ever

I looked up Brit Mitzvah due to my error that I can't edit an old post?
And I found out there is a brit Mitzvah

What is a Brit Mitzvah?
Temple Emanuel has adopted a gender-inclusive term “Brit Mitzvah” to celebrate the covenant of adult responsibility. In keeping with our core value of inclusion, we ask that you use the modern language of “Brit Mitzvah” meaning “covenant of the commandments.”

Ok Brit Mitzvah one can either make a scroll using modern Hebrew letters., even though there's no word Hebrew, or one can transcribe - I am learning a lot from you., however I'm also making mistakes too.

Torath Mosheh claims no word Hebrew, I learn that from you. But I'll use the word Hebrew for now

Ok there's Brit Milah that's circumcision
there's Brit Shalom that's no circumcision
Brit Mitzvah that's covenant of adult responsibility
Ok, later I'll look up what is brit,

Ok now as I looked up Brit Mitzvah., it said something about covenant - what does that mean covenant, and what are your thoughts about Abraham for humanity?

because what is communication - example what all ways does YHWH communicate to all of us?

Oh next question, what all did Moses do with any influences to the covenant? Can covenant change over time? And I notice all the wives are Canaanites not at all Hebrews, as well as no daughters? there was a time that happened.

So it was passed down through male then later changed passed down through female after Romans laws influenced legal system, causing to change from passing down through female.,

Mishnah had to please the Romans and change their laws., who’s a Jew?

I hope I have the right word Mishnah, what are your thoughts about the Romans and their influences?

info more about Canaanites wives no daughters.,

Modern Jews claim that their Judaism is something inherited from their mother’s side.
But Judah never fathered any daughter who could engender Jewish kids.
In fact, Judah only sired male children (Er, Onan, Shelah, Perez, and Zerah).
And these children were all born from gentile (Canaanite) mothers; therefore, their mothers could not have bestowed upon them any hereditary Judaism.

But problem solved due to pass down through male., what's your thoughts?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

What is a Brit Mitzvah?
Temple Emanuel has adopted a gender-inclusive term “Brit Mitzvah” to celebrate the covenant of adult responsibility. In keeping with our core value of inclusion, we ask that you use the modern language of “Brit Mitzvah” meaning “covenant of the commandments.”

Sounds like something that they "Temple Emanue" you quoted just made up. It is nothing, ancient.

The Talmud is the oldest source of the concept of a Bar Mitzvah. All it means is that a Jewish made child has reached the age of responsible to keep the mitzvoth that Hashem, the Source of all reality gave to Israelis at Mount Sinai. By like token, a Bat Mitzvah simply denoted the age that it was possible for a Jewish to marry.

Torath Mosheh claims no word Hebrew, I learn that from you. But I'll use the word Hebrew for now

If you would like, you can use the word "Ivrith" that is the actual name of the language of the Israeli/Jewish people.

Ok now as I looked up Brit Mitzvah., it said something about covenant - what does that mean covenant, and what are your thoughts about Abraham for humanity?

Basically, when Avraham ben-Terahh (who you call Abraham) made an agreement with Hashem about keeping mitzvoth, that agreement in the Ivrith langauge is called a (ברית) "brith." When the Torah was given at Mount Sinai the entire Israeli/Jewish people accepted a different "brith" that was national in nature. The agreement "brith" with Israel/Jews will always exist. The only difference is in the future when the Torah based governement/soceity is re-established in the land of Israel it will be established in a way that it won't be broken. I.e. a future Israeli/Jewish generation will be able to keep the Torah in a way where they won't break it and there won't be any further exiles.

So it was passed down through male then later changed passed down through female after Romans laws influenced legal system, causing to change from passing down through female.,

Mishnah had to please the Romans and change their laws., who’s a Jew?

This may help you here.

I hope I have the right word Mishnah, what are your thoughts about the Romans and their influences?

info more about Canaanites wives no daughters.,

Modern Jews claim that their Judaism is something inherited from their mother’s side.

That is not exactly true. According to Torath Mosheh/Orthodox Judaism a person is considered a part of the Jewish nation if they have:

1. A mother who descends from an ancient Jewish family.
2. A mother who converted to the Torah.

Further,

The Jewish father transfer the tribal affiliation of said Jewish children.

But Judah never fathered any daughter who could engender Jewish kids.

Yehudah ben-Ya'aqov was a Ben-Yisrael (son of Yisrael). Yehudah ben-Ya'aqov married Tamar who converted to the type of Mitzvoth that Yehudah ben-Ya'aqov kept. Further, when the Torah was given at Mount Sinai everyone who was there and accepted the Torah that Hashem converted to the Torah. Thus, at Mount Sinai everything went to 0 and started from there.

In fact, Judah only sired male children (Er, Onan, Shelah, Perez, and Zerah). And these children were all born from gentile (Canaanite) mothers; therefore, their mothers could not have bestowed upon them any hereditary Judaism. And these children were all born from gentile (Canaanite) mothers; therefore, their mothers could not have bestowed upon them any hereditary Judaism. But problem solved due to pass down through male., what's your thoughts?

And Yehudah's sons who lived, married women who converted to the mitzvoth of that time. Thus, there has never been a problem among Torath Mosheh Israeli/Jews.

The following may help you here.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

When the Torah was given at Mount Sinai the entire Israeli/Jewish people accepted a different "brith" that was national in nature.

The Ten Commandments have no “national” message as far as I can understand. There is a difference between the Ten Commandments that are Word of God; and the Torah that is Moses’ inspired understanding. Please do explain where the change to “national” was made in the Torah.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

According to Torath Mosheh/Orthodox Judaism a person is considered a part of the Jewish nation if they have:

1. A mother who descends from an ancient Jewish family.
2. A mother who converted to the Torah.

Further,

The Jewish father transfer the tribal affiliation of said Jewish children.

Would this make sense, then: 1. Essence of the Torah is One God. 2. A women who accepts One God may be considered as having converted to the Torah. 3. The father's tribal affiliation can be extended beyond the 12 Tribes since it has no divine aspect.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Would this make sense, then: 1. Essence of the Torah is One God. 2. A women who accepts One God may be considered as having converted to the Torah.

Actually no. I will list for you.

In order to convert to "Torath Mosheh" per the Torah that the Yisraeli/Jewish people received at Mount Sinai from the Source of all reality.

1. First, said non-Yisraeli/Jew is first questioned why they would want to join the Yisraeli/Jewish people.
   • The challenges and attacks the Yisraeli/Jewish people have survived in exile are explained to them and they are asked why they would want to join such a nation of people.
   • If said non-Jew accepts this as a reality and they have been found to have no alterier motives then a rabbi can proceed with them.
2. Second, said person is explained about the reality of Hashem, as the only source of all reality/creation/etc. and the prohibitons of Avodah Zara on the Yisraeli/Jewish people/nation.
   • This is done at length.
   • If they accept all of this the rabbi can proceed further with them. If not they can go on their way.
3. Third, some of the basis of the mitzvoth of the Torah is presented to them and the benefits on the Yisraeli/Jewish people from them. Then some of the prohibitions of the Torah are explained to them.
   • If they accept the above then everything is reviewed in a way where the benefits of keeping the mitzvoth of Hashem are giving as well as the benefits of being a part of the Torah based Yisraeli/Jewish people/nation.
   • If they accept all of this then the process for coversion is finished with them having a brith milah, if it is a man, and dunking in the mikvah. If it is a woman just dunking in the mikvah.

The above is the Torath Mosheh process/requirements for a person to join the Torah Mosheh Yisraeli/Jewish nation/community/people. The above is the most ancient process which is still in place in Torath Mosheh Jewish and Orthodox Jewish communities.

A women who accepts One God may be considered as having converted to the Torah.

No. This is not the case for two reasons.

1. The acceptance of a "god" mean any host of things. That is not the standard for being a part of a Torath Mosheh Jewish community, as a Jew. See my above description is inclusive for both men and women.
2. A woman who accepts a "god" in a way that is foreign to what is in the Hebrew Torah and foreign to what exists in the Torah based judicial system has not converted to anything. See my above list for why.

Also, be aware that a woman who accepts Hashem but has no desire to live in a Torah based community, live as a Torah based Jewish woman, and to raise Torah based children is not someone that a Torah based Jewish man would even approach in the first place, let alone marry.

The father's tribal affiliation can be extended beyond the 12 Tribes since it has no divine aspect.

Not true also. If one reads the "Hebrew" Torah and Tanakh, one finds that tribal affilation 100% came from Hashem. It was put in place in the past, still exists for certain tribes such as Yehudah, Lewi, and Benyamin for Jews and Menashe, Ephrayim, and Lewi for Samaritans.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

The Ten Commandments have no “national” message as far as I can understand.

What you have written is not true. The problem is that you are not reading the Torah in Ivrith/Hebrew.

 

[joelr]

I do not know about Zeus. Not studied. But I do know about deities. Deities are personification of collective unconscious of a group of people. Thus, the unconscious desire of a group of people gets personified as words of the deity. Nothing fictional about it. In this case the Hebrews may have thought that it would be better to prepare the meat in a particular way. This thought came back to them as saying of the deity.

That doesn't make sense or I don't understand. Are you saying thoughts of people leaves their head in some form of energy and does some sort of .....something? Subconscious thoughts leave the skulls of a group of people and makes words that people hear as sound? Or do they hear the words in their subconscious or in their conscious mind?

I'm confused. You said it's not fiction. However there is no mechanism in physics, neuroscience or any other where thoughts extend beyond a skull. There is no type of medium or energy where thoughts are encoded. Nothing of the sort has ever been demonstrated in any scientific setting. Testing on telepathy, remote viewing and any ESP has only shown results equal to random.
Dean Radin tried to claim that a meta-study of something similar showed results better than random chance but his methodology in getting the results is very suspect. He also makes his money by writing books for people interested in this field. So he has motivation to produce some results for sales and grants.
But the military dropped all studies on this. They don't work.

Thoughts leaving the brain and skull and effecting other people actually is fiction.

 

[joelr]

I agree. Jung's collective does not manipulate a physical reality. It only influences the psychic unconscious of the participants who, in turn, MAY or MAY NOT manipulate physical reality.

So psychic powers are not confirmed to be real. It has been demonstrated that at least some known full time psychics are fraud. No psychic has ever been able to show actual psychic powers in any way beyond what random chance would provide. There is no evidence that a psychic unconscious exists.
There is evidence that people wrote fictional stories to represent the beginnings of their culture including the activities of the first people and stories about the deities they worship. Why wouldn't it be that? Why does one group out of thousands need to be the group where some supernatural explanation is needed? Just because we were told that these stories are real by people who were just assuming it doesn't mean they were correct.

 

[joelr]

Because we have geographical and archaeological evidences. Briefly.

1 The parting of the Yam Suf matches with the flow of the Indus River being blocked by eruption of a mud volcano upstream of the point of crossing.

2 The bitter waters are found in the area near Kabul.

3 Second Yam Suf matches with Hamun-e-Mashel water body

4 Sinai volcano matches with Taftan.

5 There exists an ancient place name ‘Paran” near Isfahan.

6 Kings Highway matches with the Silk Route from Tehran to Baghdad.

7 Mount Hor matches with Kangavar.

8 Third Yam Suf matches with Shatt al-Arab.
So why should we consider it to be a myth merely because telepathy is not "proven." Let us remember that the existence of love, fear and awe is also not proven.

The Greek myths have real places also, doesn't mean they are real. Telepathy isn't not proven, it's not real. It's been tested for many many times, it's never worked. There is also physics to support a thought being carried through a human skull and entering another or doing anything else. Outside of tiny neuronal connections there are no thoughts. That tiny amount of energy doesn't jump out of your head and electricity doesn't encode a thought.

Emotions like fear and love ARE proven. There are obvious changes in hormones, natural opiates, brain states and other chemicals during different emotions. There are many changes taking place in the body and brain during different emotions.

Also it's not a story about a mud volcano. It's about wandering in the desert while Yahweh floats above and Moses having magical power. Which suggests it's a nice myth written to give a sense of identity for the new society. The author was familiar with the geography, that doesn't mean it's a true story.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

The above is the Torath Mosheh process/requirements for a person to join the Torah Mosheh Yisraeli/Jewish nation/community/people. The above is the most ancient process which is still in place in Torath Mosheh Jewish and Orthodox Jewish communities.

That is not from the Bible. "Ancient traditions" are not Word of God. The ancient Jews wanted to conquer Canaan. They had to keep their flock together against adversity. They created these rules. The objective of these rules though was the worship of One God. So let us not get trapped in the later political developments. Show me where it says in OT that a non-Jewish woman who believes in One God is not entitled to the bequeathal of the Land of Canaan.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

A woman who accepts a "god" in a way that is foreign to what is in the Hebrew Torah and foreign to what exists in the Torah based judicial system has not converted to anything. See my above list for why.

But what if the non-Jewish woman accepts the Jewish concept of God? And, this too is not from the OT.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Not true also. If one reads the "Hebrew" Torah and Tanakh, one finds that tribal affilation 100% came from Hashem.

Please give the verse from Torah that says that a person not born in the biological line of Jacob, that is not belonging to the 12 tribes, but accepting One God is not to be considered as a Jew.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

What you have written is not true. The problem is that you are not reading the Torah in Ivrith/Hebrew.

Please give the verse number.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Telepathy isn't not proven,

I see your point. What about Jung? His concept of archetypes is bunk? All the cases given by him are fake? Might it be that you are demanding wrong method? Would you prove the existence of electricity by a weighing machine? Likewise, perhaps we cannot get proof of the unconscious by the statistical methods you are proposing. I am open to discussion on this. This is an important issue, I agree.

 

[ppp]

I see your point. What about Jung? His concept of archetypes is bunk? All the cases given by him are fake? Might it be that you are demanding wrong method? Would you prove the existence of electricity by a weighing machine? Likewise, perhaps we cannot get proof of the unconscious by the statistical methods you are proposing. I am open to discussion on this. This is an important issue, I agree.

There are a lot of rhetorical questions in that post.

Are you suggesting that there is a reliable, non-fallacious method by which one can establish the existence of a collective unconscious?

If so, what is that methodology?

 

[joelr]

I see your point. What about Jung? His concept of archetypes is bunk? All the cases given by him are fake? Might it be that you are demanding wrong method? Would you prove the existence of electricity by a weighing machine? Likewise, perhaps we cannot get proof of the unconscious by the statistical methods you are proposing. I am open to discussion on this. This is an important issue, I agree.

Jung admitted that archetypes could be nothing more than saying we have instincts. When he veered more into the mystical and pseudoscientific his work is not considered literal or actual psychology any longer but more of a historical artifact. These concepts just don't have evidence in any way. I don't think it's a measurement problem. Although that is often the assigned issue as to why we can't find proof for this or that supernatural concept.
But if these things can effect the world in some meaningful way than they can be studied in some way and demonstrated in some way.

But also keep in mind early scripture isn't regarded as historical on many lines of reasoning,

Religion, Identity and the Origins of Ancient Israel

K.L. Sparks, Baptist Pastor, Professor Eastern U.

As a rule, modern scholars do not believe that the Bible's account of early Israel's history provides a wholly accurate portrait of Israel's origins. One reason for this is that the earliest part of Israel's history in Genesis is now regarded as something other than a work of modern history. Its primary author was at best an ancient historian (if a historian at all), who lived long after the events he narrated, and who drew freely from sources that were not historical (legends and theological stories); he was more concerned with theology than with the modern quest to learn 'what actually happened' (Van Seters 1992; Sparks 2002, pp. 37-71; Maidman 2003). As a result, the stories about Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph are better understood as portraits of Israel's later history than early history.



cAlmost as problematic as an historical source is the book of Exodus. This book tells the story of Israel's long enslavement in Egypt and of it's eventual emancipation; it also narrates the first stages of Israel's migration from Egypt toward Palestine. The trouble with this story, historically speaking, is that the Egyptians seem to have known nothing of these great events in which thousands of Israelite slaves were released from Egypt because of a series of natural (or supernatural( catastrophes - supposedly including the death of every firstborn Egyptian man and beast.

this paper can be found online.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

That is not from the Bible. "Ancient traditions" are not Word of God.

With all due respect, I am a Torath Mosheh Jew. We don't go by "bibles" that is a non-Jewish word and is based Christian traditions not Israeli/Jewish ones. As you mentioned earlier you aren't able to read the Torah in its original language which also means that you don't know how to correctly understand the content of the original text of the Torah. Thus, when the Torah states the following, you don't understand that it supports exactly what I wrote.

"Ancient traditions" are not Word of God.

Given that the English word "god" does not show up in any ancient Ivrith text, I think it stands to reason that your concept of god has nothing to do with the Torah based Israeli/Jewish people.

The ancient Jews wanted to conquer Canaan. They had to keep their flock together against adversity.

The fact that you have to use the word "they" means that you don't have first hand inforamtion about what any "ancient Jew" intented. By your own admission you don't have the ability read what any of them wrote. Given that I am a Jew, who lives in the land of Israel, and I can read ancient Ivrith, Samaritan Ivrith, and Jewish Aramith.

The same way you read the language of your ancesters, the language they wrote it in, and understand it better than those of use who don't know the language of your ancestors - We Jews have a better grasp our ancester's languages and what they meant by it.

They created these rules.

With all due respect, this 100% proves to me that you do not understand the Torah as it was written in Ivrith. If you did you would know that there are a least 20 or more mitzvoth that COMMAND, the Israeli/Jewish people to create rules for the Torah based Israeli/Jewish nation. The below are a few places where the Torah gives these directives.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Please give the verse number.

If you are an expert in the Torah, as it was originally written, shouldn't you already know just from reading what it states?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

∆ embarrassing ...