1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Egyptian and Jewish exodus what proof?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, May 10, 2017.

  1. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,568
    Ratings:
    +8,014
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Yes the initial period had the Gods turn hostile to humans, then there was a political revolution in heavens and the new Gods became friendly or a change of heart. Thus history began. That's the advantage of having many gods.

    I have read excerpts, as much as Google book view allows. I was asking you to browse not buy. You will find that moral ideals laid out by God's of Egypt or Mesopotamia (except Assyrians) were quite advanced.
    Instruction of Ptah-hotep


    You have not looked at the poll carefully. The values shown were for all Americans. Finally the choices were
    a) Bible was the actual word of God (30% of Christians)
    b) Bible was the inspired word of God (54% of Christians)
    c) Bible was an ancient book of fables (14 % of Christians)

    Now this does not address the issue of whether the interpretation should be literal or not. For example Bible contains Psalms, NT letters of Paul which are not actual words of God as any Christian who thinks for a minute will concur.

    The Pew survey attached below (includes American Jews) provides a better answer, as well as shows the attitude of other religions as well.
    Religious Landscape Study


    None of this provides what Jews and Christians think about plagues of Egypt and Exodus which are keystone events. From what I read, the beliefs on their actual historicity is tenaciously held
    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-life-and-religion/144177/reconciling-biblical-criticism
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,568
    Ratings:
    +8,014
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Well, I am uninterested in playing that game. Anybody can invent a story to make any action seem just. The only question I am interested in is evaluating whether the God character portrayed in the Bible appears good or just based the stories associated with him in the Bible. I have no intention on assuming that he is just apriori.

    In fact I can do what you do and reverse it. Assume God of the Bible is Satan in disguise and add filler material to show how all his actions were actually malicious and evil designed to foment violence, hatred and enslave humans to him. It would be quite easy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2015
    Messages:
    5,470
    Ratings:
    +1,293
    Religion:
    Unitarian Universalism,Pagan,Zen
    LMAO! Yes that's great.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +497
    The events recorded in Exodus and Numbers occurred 3,500 years ago. Whether one accepts reality or not is, of course, each one's choice. Jesus Christ accepted these accounts as reliable history, as do the rest of the Bible's writers.
     
  5. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    So? First, you'd have to show that Jesus was an actual historical figure--without using anything from the bible itself (the bible remains your claim, here).

    But good luck with that one-- there does not appear to be any, non-biblical historical documentation about the man... anywhere.... except for 120-150 years too late...

    hmmmmmm....
     
  6. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Ooooh. Mindwipe. Very Star Trek. :D

    I do find it amusing that modern literature has come up with better alternatives to simply murdering the bad guys...

    ... although murdering the "black hats" does remain a popular choice. Even Harry Potter had to go down that path. ;)
     
  7. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Very nice.
     
  8. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,337
    Ratings:
    +961
    Religion:
    Christian
    Did you read the story? What did you come up with?
     
  9. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +497
    I can see why you call yourself Bob the Unbeliever. A quick search about Jesus historicity refutes your claim of no non- biblical historical documentation about the Christ.
    That aside, I think the following few quotes of many are apropos:
    • Michael Grant, a historian and an expert on ancient classical civilization, noted: “If we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned.”

    • Rudolf Bultmann, a professor of New Testament studies, stated: “The doubt as to whether Jesus really existed is unfounded and not worth refutation. No sane person can doubt that Jesus stands as founder behind the historical movement whose first distinct stage is represented by the oldest Palestinian community [of Christians].”
      Source
     
  10. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Both of your "sources" are highly biased. And therefore? Nothing they claim is trustworthy.

    Repeat: Nothing they say can be trusted; they have an agenda.

    But nice try.
     
  11. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,337
    Ratings:
    +961
    Religion:
    Christian
    What did you “teach in Sunday School” about the exodus? What is the message of the exodus to orthodox Christians and Jews? “Orthodox” being defined as the majority. Not only did you step into heresy but blasphemy is under your feet.
     
  12. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    What a nice bit of Strawman Projection you have there-- you ASSume that I was the same back then, as I am now.

    Nothing could be further from the truth: I Grew Up, and Put Away Childish Things (like faith, belief and the idea that the bible is Divine in any way, shape or form).

    I Got Better.

    How nice of you to be so.... judgemental.
     
  13. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    LMAO! Oh, my ... you were serious???? LAUGHING HARDER.

    I cannot POSSIBLY be guilty of either of those things. I reject your dogma in it's entirety-- therefore, neither "heresy" nor "blasphemy" applies to ME.

    That is so very, very funny!
     
  14. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,337
    Ratings:
    +961
    Religion:
    Christian
    As of yet, you did not answer the question.

     
  15. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    The question was meaningless: as I accept neither "heretic" nor "blasphemy" as valid terms.

    They do not apply to me; I am not under the authority of anything or anyone where they would apply; I live in a secular country-- no religious laws permitted.
     
  16. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Blasphemy: Religious laws that are put into place to keep people from realizing religion has NOTHING to support it's claims, and therefore needs laws to keep people from asking.

    Heresy: what True Believers™ call anyone who has either escaped, or was never trapped by the lies that prop up religion.
     
  17. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,337
    Ratings:
    +961
    Religion:
    Christian
    The more you write, the more you prove my point
     
  18. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    What? You had a point, other than to sit in a judgemental ivory tower?

    You cannot prove your point, apart from repeating your silliness. I have attempted to put it in tiny words so you can get a clue-- but, alas, you remain clueless.

    Neither blasphemy nor heresy apply to an atheist-- by definition.

    You are welcome to attempt a rebuttal, regarding those terms-- instead of your childish "no you di-int" posts so far...
     
  19. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4,337
    Ratings:
    +961
    Religion:
    Christian
    What did you teach? This is not a hard question.
     
  20. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2017
    Messages:
    6,300
    Ratings:
    +3,890
    Religion:
    unbeliever
    Oh. I totally missed that was your question, what with your judgemental and ugly attitude back there...

    Seriously. You could try to be less of a .... <expletive> if you wanted to actually converse in a polite way...

    What did I teach in sunday school? Which time? I was a 3 to 5 year old teacher for 3 years-- never missed a sunday. Those wee ones were a hoot, and incredibly smart. I never spoke down to them-- that would have been..... Judgemental.

    But for about 10? 15 years? I lost track... I was a volunteer in the youth program. Never missed helping out in summer camp, either-- many times I took two weeks' vacation to teach two different camps. Drove the church bus too-- still have my commercial license, in fact. I gave countless hours-- years' worth-- being with those kids. Sometimes, if I had not volunteered? There would not have BEEN a program at all...

    As for what I taught? Well... I wasn't an atheist back then. But you are so Judgemental, that I doubt YOU would approve. Right? I HAVE to have YOUR, PERSONAL approval.... isn't that how it works? ONLY YOU CAN BE THE "CORRECT" JUDGE?

    But I got better. You can too.
     
Loading...