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Featured Egyptian and Jewish exodus what proof?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, May 10, 2017.

  1. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Googling for foolgling for those who take the bait.

    There is no accounting for people falling for fake news from World News Daily despite the disclaimer that this is a site for 'fake news' to trip up the gullible to believe what they want. By the way there is another 'fake news' article from the 'spoof news site' that is passed around that there is a first century document found that confirms the Biblical Jesus Christ.

    From: FACT CHECK: Chariot Wheels Found at the Bottom of the Red Sea?

    "On 24 October 2014, the web site World News Daily Report (WNDR) published an article reporting that chariot wheels and the bones of horses and men had been discovered at the bottom of the Red Sea, thereby supposedly proving archaeological proof of the Biblical narrative about the escape of the Israelites from the Egyptians. According to the Book of Exodus, God parted the Red Sea long enough for the Moses-led Israelites to walk across it on dry ground, but closed the waters up again upon the pursuing Egyptian army and drowned them all:

    Egypt’s Antiquities Ministry announced this morning that a team of underwater archaeologists had discovered that remains of a large Egyptian army from the 14th century BC, at the bottom of the Gulf of Suez, 1.5 kilometers offshore from the modern city of Ras Gharib. The team was searching for the remains of ancient ships and artefacts related to Stone Age and Bronze Age trade in the Red Sea area, when they stumbled upon a gigantic mass of human bones darkened by age.

    The scientists lead by Professor Abdel Muhammad Gader and associated with Cairo University’s Faculty of Archaeology, have already recovered a total of more than 400 different skeletons, as well as hundreds of weapons and pieces of armor, also the remains of two war chariots, scattered over an area of approximately 200 square meters. They estimate that more than 5000 other bodies could be dispersed over a wider area, suggesting that an army of large size who have perished on the site.

    However, if one is looking for news of an important scientific or historical discovery, World News Daily Report is not the place to look. WNDR is fake news site whose disclaimer notes that the site’s articles are satirical in nature:

    World News Daily Report is a news and political satire web publication, which may or may not use real names, often in semi-real or mostly fictitious ways. All news articles contained within orldnewsdailyreport.com are fiction, and presumably fake news. Any resemblance to the truth is purely coincidental, except for all references to politicians and/or celebrities, in which case they are based on real people, but still based almost entirely in fiction.



    Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea Hoax Persists
    by James F. McGrath 12 Comments

    Wing Nut Daily recently featured a brand new article about a very old hoax, centered on the claim that chariot wheels have been found in the Red Sea. That anyone could see the photos of relatively new and shiny metal wheels and not be skeptical astonishes me. That anyone could simply take the word of a sensationalist news source that these objects are solid gold (and hence not covered by coral) and that no one has found and removed them suggests that some people have yet to learn the difference between faith and gullibility.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    One looks like it might be a ferry steering wheel, which makes me think this has less to say about the historical accuracy of the Exodus account, and more to say about whether it is a good idea to take a ferry trip on the Red Sea.

    The hoax is at least as old as the charlatan Ron Wyatt. There are a wide array of sites, some explicitly by Christians, focused on exposing the lies and deceptions perpetrated by this individual.

    That others have come along to try to profit from similar claims is unsurprising. That frauds can be exposed and have no effect on people’s willingness to believe is, however, disturbing.
     
    #101 shunyadragon, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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  3. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Alas, you continue to use your claim, as "proof". *sigh*

    You cannot bootstrap your claims as somehow becoming "evidence".

    There remains zero non-religious evidence in support of millions of people wandering over an area that could be walked end-to-end in 11 days. The environmental impact of such a large tribe in such a small area would last for centuries.

    Just the denuding of all the scarce vegetation for those hundreds and hundreds of campfires alone, not to mention the remains of the campfires themselves, would still be evident, even today.

    Exodus never happened. The Hewbrews were never a significant body of slaves in Egypt, who suddenly left: Never happened.
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I did no such thing. *sigh* Your response, however, serves as sufficient evidence that I'm wasting my time.
     
  5. Etritonakin

    Etritonakin Well-Known Member

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    Don't know much about it. Might check it out someday.
     
  6. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    LOL! You contradicted yourself.

    On one hand, you claimed NOT to be a literalist-- that the bible is allegorical.

    But on the other hand? You insist that Exodus really happened as written-- that there really were millions of former Egyptian slaves, wandering a tiny patch of desert for 40 years without leaving so much as a single broken pot behind.

    Which is it?

    Allegorical myth/parable? In which case it hardly matters if there were no artifacts-- it was just a Morality Story. And you can hardly object if people do not think it ever happened.

    Or Real History™ that has no actual historical artifacts to support it?

    LOL!
     
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  7. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan A.K.A. The Kilted Heathen

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    I suppose that's one way to look at it (not without it's own problems, though). Yet were addressing the historic nature of the event, since some people claim that it actually happened.

    Depends. A generation is a father to a son. Could be 40 years, could be 21.
     
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  8. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Ok great ! What exact Museum in Egypt can I travel to to look at holds it? Ha, yea I read severals articles, amazed thinking maybe tis true after all. then I got to this age. Ancient Discoveries on Trial Part 4: Did Ron Wyatt find the Red Sea Crossing?

    It says none of the wheels axils or bodies claimed found were kept by the goverment . Had this been real, it would be in the EGyptian Museum, they would've put tape around it kep anyone from coming into the area and dug it up put a big team of archaeologists and scientists to work ont he area and project and by now it would all be in museums wed be able to visit it.

    But truth is it doesn't exist. Pictures prove nothing, We should know where it is, it should've been big news in the 80s and 90s, it was found in 88 BTW.It would've been like when we found the titanic biggest news in the world.
     
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  9. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    That reply was to Etritonakin
     
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  10. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    The terms and/or words must be understood within context on how they were used by the author. Before we ask if the story is true, we have to ask ourselves what is the meaning of the story. What is the message the author(s) is conveying?
     
  11. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan A.K.A. The Kilted Heathen

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    Good question. Is it cultural history? Glory of their god? Allegorical message and lesson?
     
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  12. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    It has all been proven to be totally bogus and false beyond belief. The pictures of the wheels shown are supposedly bronze, and one source claimed gold or gold gilded wheels and chariot. The chariot wheels and chariots were mostly wood and would no longer exist today.
     
    #112 shunyadragon, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  13. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Well, yes. The Exodus from Egypt story has a pretty clear message-- the bible's god really really wants to murder Pharaoh in the most brutal of ways-- so it an get much glory from his death.

    But first? Let's torture the innocents with plagues. More god-glory. Next, let's murder the innocent first-born-- for even MORE god-glory.

    Question: why did not bible-god simply allow Pharaoh to capitulate at the beginning? Or simply snuff him with a convenient heart attack? How much death and suffering could have been eliminated .... !

    Oh! I already answered that-- there is GLORY in TORTURE AND MURDER.
     
  14. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I believe it was written as a mythical allegory for the exile in Babylonia and to appeal to and justify Hebrew tribal nationalism and monotheism in opposition to Canaanite/Ugarit polytheism on the return to their homeland where many of the Hebrews that remained in Judea during the exile believed in Canaanite/Ugarit polytheism. The 40 years roughly parallels the time (~48 years) from the destruction of the Temple and the Babylonian decree allowing them to return to their homeland.
     
    #114 shunyadragon, May 14, 2017
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
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  15. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    In other words when Hebrews left the EGyptian area, many Hebrews stayed and believe in the Egyptian Gods and Godesses, or Caanan Gods and Goddesses; The myth was created so when they came back home they could create a sense of nationalism, patriotic pride, to encourage belief in Monotheism.

    When you watch the old movies about ,like the 10 Commandments, it says EGyptians enslaved the whole family of EGyptians, children women and all. Wiki and articles state that EGypts Hebrew slaves were only young male slaves. thought the bible stated the whole entirety of all HEbrews were slaves, so which is right?

    The movie The 10 Commandments say that one Hebrew woman was kept to be a prostitute to a ruler, so did Egyptians keep JEwish women as sex slaves?
     
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  16. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    If Pharaoh let the Jews go the author wouldn’t have much to work with to create a story. There is a big difference between killing and murdering. There are times when killing is justified. Murder is never justified.
     
  17. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The Brooklyn Papyris has names of slaves with very Jewish sounding names
     
  18. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    I do not consider it a problem that there were Jewish slaves in Egypt. That is not the problem with Exodus.
     
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  19. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Kill, murder-- what's the difference among Deities, really? Dead is still dead.

    But yeah-- there wouldn't be much of a story if bible's god acted.... GODLY.

    Instead of acting like an ant-bully, and deliberately and with malice, setting things up so innocent babies are slaughtered like so much sheep...

    You remember that part, right? Where all the first born in Egypt were slaughtered like cattle?

    The odds are very high, that the majority of those were innocent infants.

    But the bible's god is Famous for punishing the innocent for the "sins" of the "guilty"...
     
  20. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

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    The story is an allegory representing the 3 fold make up of man; body, soul and spirit.
     
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