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Featured Egyptian and Jewish exodus what proof?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, May 10, 2017.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    The old testament has said that Egyptians keep jews as slaves, do we have proof of this? I saw a special about Egyptians how the made the Pyramids and they found a huge area where they had written on the walls journals of young Egyptian men who had been recruited to build the Pyramids not slaves.

    The bible also says they're were many plagues God put on Egyptians and that Jews crossed the red sea, what proof is there for any of this or even that Egyptians kept Jewish slaves?
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    There's none. It was just a narrative to create a national identity. Here's an interesting read on the subject written in a way that's pretty simple to understand. Even I managed to get through it.

    The Bible Unearthed - Wikipedia
     
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  3. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    Patterns of Evidence - the Exodus is a documentary that presents archeological evidence in support of the Biblical account. I find the historical account in the Bible to be convincing evidence in itself.
     
  4. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Nah, its mostly fiction.
     
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  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    That documentary is a well crafted lie.
     
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  6. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    What makes you think so?
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    It's based on Rohl's new chronology which has been completely debunked decades ago.
    David Rohl: How to Fail A Test of Time
    Here is the most current chronology that has both the backing of actual archeology and absolute dating
    http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100617/full/news.2010.304.htm

    The Radiocarbon-Based 95% confidence interval for 1st year of reign along with historical estimates made by several groups are shown for Old, Middle and New Kingdom.
    [​IMG]
     
    #7 sayak83, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  8. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    There is controversy over Egyptian dating, and uncertainty, and I'm not sure the documentary is based on Rohl's chronology.
    Anyway, I found the evidence presented in the documentary interesting.
     
  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    It is, I watched it. Added some info in my earlier post. Conventional chronology has been vindicated quite well.
     
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  10. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Is there mention of the Israelites anywhere in ancient Egyptian records?


    No Egyptian text mentions the Israelites except the famous inscription of Merneptah dated to about 1206 B.C.E. But those Israelites were in Canaan; they are not in Egypt, and nothing is said about them escaping from Egypt.



    The Merneptah Stele, dated to about 1206 B.C.E. and now housed at the Cairo Museum, offers the earliest historical evidence of a people called Israel. Enlarge Photo credit: © WGBH Educational Foundation

    Tell us more about the Merneptah inscription. Why is it so famous?

    It's the earliest reference we have to the Israelites. The victory stele of Pharaoh Merneptah, the son of Ramesses II, mentions a list of peoples and city-states in Canaan, and among them are the Israelites. And it's interesting that the other entities, the other ethnic groups, are described as nascent states, but the Israelites are described as "a people." They have not yet reached a level of state organization.

    So the Egyptians, a little before 1200 B.C.E., know of a group of people somewhere in the central highlands—a loosely affiliated tribal confederation, if you will—called "Israelites." These are our Israelites. So this is a priceless inscription.

    Does archeology back up the information in the Merneptah inscription? Is there evidence of the Israelites in the central highlands of Canaan at this time?

    We know today, from archeological investigation, that there were more than 300 early villages of the 13th and 12th century in the area. I call these "proto-Israelite" villages.

    Forty years ago it would have been impossible to identify the earliest Israelites archeologically. We just didn't have the evidence. And then, in a series of regional surveys, Israeli archeologists in the 1970s began to find small hilltop villages in the central hill country north and south of Jerusalem and in lower Galilee. Now we have almost 300 of them.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html

    [For more on Moses and the Exodus, see Carol Meyer's interview.]

    Is there mention of the Israelites anywhere in ancient Egyptian records?

    No Egyptian text mentions the Israelites except the famous inscription of Merneptah dated to about 1206 B.C.E. But those Israelites were in Canaan; they are not in Egypt, and nothing is said about them escaping from Egypt.



    The Merneptah Stele, dated to about 1206 B.C.E. and now housed at the Cairo Museum, offers the earliest historical evidence of a people called Israel. Enlarge Photo credit: © WGBH Educational Foundation

    Tell us more about the Merneptah inscription. Why is it so famous?

    It's the earliest reference we have to the Israelites. The victory stele of Pharaoh Merneptah, the son of Ramesses II, mentions a list of peoples and city-states in Canaan, and among them are the Israelites. And it's interesting that the other entities, the other ethnic groups, are described as nascent states, but the Israelites are described as "a people." They have not yet reached a level of state organization.

    So the Egyptians, a little before 1200 B.C.E., know of a group of people somewhere in the central highlands—a loosely affiliated tribal confederation, if you will—called "Israelites." These are our Israelites. So this is a priceless inscription.

    Does archeology back up the information in the Merneptah inscription? Is there evidence of the Israelites in the central highlands of Canaan at this time?

    We know today, from archeological investigation, that there were more than 300 early villages of the 13th and 12th century in the area. I call these "proto-Israelite" villages.

    Forty years ago it would have been impossible to identify the earliest Israelites archeologically. We just didn't have the evidence. And then, in a series of regional surveys, Israeli archeologists in the 1970s began to find small hilltop villages in the central hill country north and south of Jerusalem and in lower Galilee. Now we have almost 300 of them.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html

    And for an interesting take on the REED SEA as opposed to the Red Sea

    http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2008/08/New-Evidence-from-Egypt-on-the-Location-of-the-Exodus-Sea-Crossing-Part-I.aspx#Article
     
    #10 pcarl, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  11. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Is that supposed to be an argument?

    By your logic there were no slaves in ancient Egypt because Egyptians build the Pyramids.
    Meanwhile in reality it is an established fact that prisoners of war were turned into slaves.
     
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  12. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    So your announcing a blanket statement that it is a proven fact that Jews were slaves and the Exodus took place. Sense you have not back it up with any proof except to say its a proven fact( LOL), care to back up that blanket statement with proof?
     
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  13. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Where exactly did I write that?

    I personally think it is quite ridiculous to expect the Egyptians to keep handy inscriptions about every small tribe they subjugated.
    Though they probably did, on papyrus.
     
  14. Nietzsche

    Nietzsche The Last Prussian
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    I'm more interested in how they managed to stretch an 11 day walk into something that lasted for 40 years.That's even less believable than the Egyptians using slaves to build the Pyramids.
     
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  15. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    You wrote that here"Meanwhile in reality it is an established fact that prisoners of war were turned into slaves. Saying something is an established fact without providing proof is nothing, it proves nothing, saying its an established fact is noting, what proof do you have? What established fact by whos standards?
     
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  16. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    How many people did Moses take out of Egypt?
    Exodus reports 600,000 and 603,550 adult male Israelites, include women and children and you'd have over two million; include livestock and the numbers multiply tenfold.
    The total estimated Egyptian population at the time was three to 4.5 million.

    >Two million people, plus livestock and household effects, dwelling in a barren desert for 40 years, and not a single fossil or artifact left behind?
    How did they survive? How is there no archaeological evidence of their population? The whole story is implausible and unsupported by any archaeological evidence.

    The Bible does not say "Red Sea." The Bible says Yam Suph, or Sea of Reeds.
    Think about it: why would a fleeing people head East through a barren desert toward an uncrossable sea, if they had any knowledge of geography? The only reasonable escape route would be through the papyrus bogs of the Nile delta into Palestine -- through a "sea of reeds."

    There is no archaeological evidence of the Biblical exodus.
    That may well be, But the archaeological evidence points to paid workers working on the pyramids.
     
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  17. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Go to google
    "Slavery in ancient egypt"

    Have fun



    Where in the Torah are the pyramids even mentioned? Oh right they aren't.

    Neither the Torah, nor the Tanakh, nor the Mischnah, nor the Talmud claim that we build the pyramids.

    So why do people keep bringing it up as if that's what is being claimed? for crying out loud...
     
  18. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Flankeri sense most of Americana re Christian and Jewish, Google in Texas will of course side withChristainity and Jewish beliefs, it proves nothing. I'm sure if I put in the question Did Egyptians really have Jewish slaves and or was the exodus in the bible real, there will be opinions on both side.

    But hey sense you put the challenge here Ill put quotes up here.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Begging the question, big time.
     
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  20. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Ok Flankerl I just looked and automatically came up with this man raised up Jewish he says the opposite of you. He says his Jewish beliefs taught him Jews helped build the Pyramids, I was taught that also in the Baptist church.He also says its not real. Not only that but I found WIki also agrees with me and there are more people on Google that disagree with you then I thought well well. Heres the first link.The Biblical Exodus Story Is Fiction | HuffPost
     
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