Ego

[nPeace]

I actually believe that the angel that challenged God was very fearful.

Why do you believe that?

I believe that all human beings lived with God as His spirit sons and daughters before coming to this world.

Why do you believe that?

Our participation in mortality is a crucial test to help us determine who and what we want to be throughout eternity.

Why do you believe that?

I believe that the angel that challenged God - the devil/Satan/Lucifer/whatever - was among us along with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Why do you believe that?

In fact - the Lord Jesus Christ volunteered to be our Advocate and Mediator - in order for the Plan to succeed.

After this plan was explained to us - along with the risks involved - I believe that the angel that challenged God was both afraid and jealous.

He was jealous of the authority and position given to the Lord Jesus Christ over himself and he was afraid of the risks involved with entering into mortality.

I believe that these two things - jealousy and fear - fuel his pride.

Why do you believe all of that?

 

[shunyadragon]

Please explain how, and why.

Explanation not necessary. Simply the evidence speaks for itself. Clinging to ancient world views reinforces ancient tribal identities. This includes an ancient tribal anthropomorphic God.

 

[Earthtank]

The word ego is defined as,,, a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.

The Bible does not use the word ego, but it uses words which are similar in nature to ego.
One reference says...
PRIDE
Inordinate self-esteem; an unreasonable feeling of superiority as to one’s talents, beauty, wealth, rank, and so forth; disdainful behavior or treatment; insolence or arrogance of demeanor; haughty bearing. Pride can, more rarely, have the good connotation of a sense of delight or elation arising from some act or possession. Some synonyms of pride are egotism, arrogance, haughtiness.
The Hebrew verb ga·ʼahʹ literally means “grow tall; get high” and is the root of a number of Hebrew words conveying the idea of pride. These related forms are rendered “haughtiness,” “self-exaltation,” and, in both good and bad senses, “eminence,” and “superiority.” - Job 8:11; Ezekiel 47:5; Isaiah 9:9; Proverbs 8:13; Psalms 68:34; Amos 8:7.
The Greek word kau·khaʹo·mai, meaning “boast, take pride, exult,” likewise is used in both a good and a bad sense, the usage being determined by the context. - 1 Corinthians 1:29; Romans 2:17; 5:2.

Everyone has ego or pride, and it can be at a reasonable level, which isn't bad, or it can rise above that, and even reach extremes.
It's a hard question... I think... but is there a link / connection between ego / pride and anger, and how can one tell the difference between prideful, or egotistical anger, and righteous or justified anger?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Why do you believe that?


Why do you believe that?


Why do you believe that?


Why do you believe that?


Why do you believe all of that?

I'm just going to answer all of these with the same response.

If you want me to delve into them deeper - you'll need to ask again.

Basically - just like anyone else - I believe these things because of how I interpreted what I have studied as well as the personal experiences that I have had.

 

[joe1776]

I see no reason to boast about being better than someone else, since we cannot judge that person.
(Luke 18:9-14)
9 He also told this illustration to some who trusted in their own righteousness and who considered others as nothing: 10 “Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like everyone else - extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give the tenth of all things I acquire.’ 13 But the tax collector, standing at a distance, was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward but kept beating his chest, saying, ‘O God, be gracious to me, a sinner.’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his home and was proved more righteous than that Pharisee. Because everyone who exalts himself will be humiliated, but whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”

Yes, that quote sounds like good advice, but you wrote in an earlier post:

If you are using it as I did in the OP, that is good, but you would need to explain to me how feeling proud of one's God, and way of life being superior to another, amounts to arrogance.

Isn't --- feeling proud of your God and feeling that your way of life is superior -- about feeling morally superior because of your religion?

 

[SalixIncendium]

The word ego is defined as,,, a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance.

The Bible does not use the word ego, but it uses words which are similar in nature to ego.
One reference says...
PRIDE
Inordinate self-esteem; an unreasonable feeling of superiority as to one’s talents, beauty, wealth, rank, and so forth; disdainful behavior or treatment; insolence or arrogance of demeanor; haughty bearing. Pride can, more rarely, have the good connotation of a sense of delight or elation arising from some act or possession. Some synonyms of pride are egotism, arrogance, haughtiness.
The Hebrew verb ga·ʼahʹ literally means “grow tall; get high” and is the root of a number of Hebrew words conveying the idea of pride. These related forms are rendered “haughtiness,” “self-exaltation,” and, in both good and bad senses, “eminence,” and “superiority.” - Job 8:11; Ezekiel 47:5; Isaiah 9:9; Proverbs 8:13; Psalms 68:34; Amos 8:7.
The Greek word kau·khaʹo·mai, meaning “boast, take pride, exult,” likewise is used in both a good and a bad sense, the usage being determined by the context. - 1 Corinthians 1:29; Romans 2:17; 5:2.

Everyone has ego or pride, and it can be at a reasonable level, which isn't bad, or it can rise above that, and even reach extremes.
It's a hard question... I think... but is there a link / connection between ego / pride and anger, and how can one tell the difference between prideful, or egotistical anger, and righteous or justified anger?

Pride is oh such a small part of ego. Each of the Seven Deadly sins can be attributed to ego, and still these combined are just a drop in the bucket called ego. There is so much more to ego.

 

[nPeace]

 

[nPeace]

I'm just going to answer all of these with the same response.

If you want me to delve into them deeper - you'll need to ask again.

Basically - just like anyone else - I believe these things because of how I interpreted what I have studied as well as the personal experiences that I have had.

That does not help, as your interpretation can be based anything not really scriptural, and your experience anything that's unscriptural. Isn't that true?

I would really like to hear from you.

1. Why do you believe that the angel that challenged God was very fearful?
2. Why do you believe that all human beings lived with God as His spirit sons and daughters before coming to this world?
3. Why do you believe that our participation in mortality is a crucial test to help us determine who and what we want to be throughout eternity?
4. Why do you believe the angel that challenged God - the devil/Satan/Lucifer/whatever - was among us along with the Lord Jesus Christ?
5. Why do you believe the devil was afraid of the risks involved with entering into mortality?

 

[nPeace]

Yes, that quote sounds like good advice, but you wrote in an earlier post:



Isn't --- feeling proud of your God and feeling that your way of life is superior -- about feeling morally superior because of your religion?

Thanks for asking.
Suppose I had a cat that did tricks - great tricks... exceptional, extraordinary.
I am proud of my cat.

When do I say my cat is superior to any cat?
Well I can do that, by going through the neighborhood, and everyone I see with a cat, I say, "Hey. My cat is better than yours."
Or, I can make that statement if someone challenges me on it.... I can say, 'My cat is superior in it's abilities.'

Now, I don't believe in doing the former. It does nothing but draw attention to myself.
However, with the latter, it is not drawing attention to myself, and for no good reason.
I am vindicating my cat, whose reputation has been challenged.

That in perspective... Our way of life is demonstrated by what we do; how we live.
We do not need to brag about it. it is evident to all people.
When people challenge that, we can keep quiet and let our works speak for themselves.
However, it may become necessary to express it as a fact, to vindicate that, and the one to whom it is associated with, and that one's belongings.
It all depends on the circumstances, as I explained here.

When saying that our God is superior to other gods, we are stating a fact, based on again, the situation. We are not bragging. We are drawing attention - not to ourselves, but our God, - vindicating him.

vindicate - clear (someone) of blame or suspicion ; show or prove to be right, reasonable, or justified.

When an Atheist claims to be more moral, than a Christian, that becomes a topic for debate. Countering it, is not a matter of pride.
Perhaps, sometimes Atheist do the most bragging, as they try to attack the Christian God, and the Christians and their religion, or religious beliefs.
That's my experience. Do you find that to be the case, or other?

It's like the guy that comes up to me and says, "That cat is just a silly old cat, that walks like a duck."
I'm sorry, but he's going to be put to shame, in front of his friends too... if necessary.

Spoiler

Sure, I can just ignore it. No big deal. after all, it's only a cat. Just let him believe what he wants.
I'm using this as an example. God, Christianity, the Bible, are more important than a cat.
(2 Corinthians 10:3-6)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ; 6 and we are prepared to inflict punishment for every disobedience, as soon as your own obedience is complete.

A war is actually waging.

This is where we are going to see how pride and ego are linked to anger. will he get angry? Most cases they do. Why? I showed him that what he believes is wrong, and rather than accept that, and submit to that fact, he displays anger, because of the pride - the ego, preventing him from accepting the truth.

That's how I find it to be. What about you?

 

[nPeace]

Pride is oh such a small part of ego. Each of the Seven Deadly sins can be attributed to ego, and still these combined are just a drop in the bucket called ego. There is so much more to ego.

Can you elaborate a bit on what you said there. There seem to contain much more than I am seeing in these few words.

 

[joe1776]

Thanks for asking.
Suppose I had a cat that did tricks - great tricks... exceptional, extraordinary.
I am proud of my cat.

When do I say my cat is superior to any cat?
Well I can do that, by going through the neighborhood, and everyone I see with a cat, I say, "Hey. My cat is better than yours."
Or, I can make that statement if someone challenges me on it.... I can say, 'My cat is superior in it's abilities.'

Now, I don't believe in doing the former. It does nothing but draw attention to myself.
However, with the latter, it is not drawing attention to myself, and for no good reason.
I am vindicating my cat, whose reputation has been challenged.

That in perspective... Our way of life is demonstrated by what we do; how we live.
We do not need to brag about it. it is evident to all people.
When people challenge that, we can keep quiet and let our works speak for themselves.
However, it may become necessary to express it as a fact, to vindicate that, and the one to whom it is associated with, and that one's belongings.
It all depends on the circumstances, as I explained here.

When saying that our God is superior to other gods, we are stating a fact, based on again, the situation. We are not bragging. We are drawing attention - not to ourselves, but our God, - vindicating him.

vindicate - clear (someone) of blame or suspicion ; show or prove to be right, reasonable, or justified.

When an Atheist claims to be more moral, than a Christian, that becomes a topic for debate. Countering it, is not a matter of pride.
Perhaps, sometimes Atheist do the most bragging, as they try to attack the Christian God, and the Christians and their religion, or religious beliefs.
That's my experience. Do you find that to be the case, or other?

It's like the guy that comes up to me and says, "That cat is just a silly old cat, that walks like a duck."
I'm sorry, but he's going to be put to shame, in front of his friends too... if necessary.

Spoiler

Sure, I can just ignore it. No big deal. after all, it's only a cat. Just let him believe what he wants.
I'm using this as an example. God, Christianity, the Bible, are more important than a cat.
(2 Corinthians 10:3-6)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to what we are in the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ; 6 and we are prepared to inflict punishment for every disobedience, as soon as your own obedience is complete.

A war is actually waging.

This is where we are going to see how pride and ego are linked to anger. will he get angry? Most cases they do. Why? I showed him that what he believes is wrong, and rather than accept that, and submit to that fact, he displays anger, because of the pride - the ego, preventing him from accepting the truth.

That's how I find it to be. What about you?

When we claim superiority in anything, we need to specify superior in what? That you have a superior cat begs the question: superior in what? If you claim you have a cat superior to most cats in intelligence and your cat can do tricks that most cats can't do, you have supported your claim with evidence.

So, if your claim is that your religion is superior to others, be specific: superior in what? If you're claiming that it's superior morally to other belief systems, you'll need to provide evidence. If you can't do that, you should expect that others not of your faith will write off your claim as arrogant bragging.

So, please be specific. You feel your religion is superior in what?

 

[nPeace]

When we claim superiority in anything, we need to specify superior in what? That you have a superior cat begs the question: superior in what? If you claim you have a cat superior to most cats in intelligence and your cat can do tricks that most cats can't do, you have supported your claim with evidence.

So, if your claim is that your religion is superior to others, be specific: superior in what? If you're claiming that it's superior morally to other belief systems, you'll need to provide evidence. If you can't do that, you should expect that others not of your faith will write off your claim as arrogant bragging.

So, please be specific. You feel your religion is superior in what?

I never mentioned religion.
Also, there are hundreds of threads on these forums where evidence for such claims are given.
Any reason you raised it? Is it a topic you are interested in, and want to discuss?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

That does not help, as your interpretation can be based anything not really scriptural, and your experience anything that's unscriptural. Isn't that true?

I would really like to hear from you.

1. Why do you believe that the angel that challenged God was very fearful?
2. Why do you believe that all human beings lived with God as His spirit sons and daughters before coming to this world?
3. Why do you believe that our participation in mortality is a crucial test to help us determine who and what we want to be throughout eternity?
4. Why do you believe the angel that challenged God - the devil/Satan/Lucifer/whatever - was among us along with the Lord Jesus Christ?
5. Why do you believe the devil was afraid of the risks involved with entering into mortality?

I don't believe that my interpretation or personal experience needs be purely "scriptural" - especially since that word is quite subjective.

Different "scriptures" for every walk of life.

 

[Bird123]

You sound like a teacher.
Have you ever seen someone torture and abuse a little child?
Do you feel happy, sad, calm, or angry... or something else?

Happiness is no more than a Choice. I will always be Happy.

I have seen lots of people making bad choices. On the other hand, that is part of God's great learning process.

I have also seen people making Great, Intelligent choices. They are the teachers of us all.

I have seen children having a rough time of it. On the other hand, sometimes children can be their parents best teacher.

The dynamics of God's system are simply amazing. Great Intelligence exists behind everything.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Oh yes, children tend to really like me. It's not everyday they are treated as equals.

 

[joe1776]

I never mentioned religion.
Also, there are hundreds of threads on these forums where evidence for such claims are given.
Any reason you raised it? Is it a topic you are interested in, and want to discuss?

In an earlier post, I asked you: Isn't --- feeling proud of your God and feeling that your way of life is superior -- about feeling morally superior because of your religion?

You didn't answer the question specifically, but you said this:

When an Atheist claims to be more moral, than a Christian, that becomes a topic for debate. Countering it, is not a matter of pride.

Since the reverse is true far more often, it's usually the Christian claiming moral superiority over the atheist, that line sounded to me like you were defending pride in your Christian religion. If that's not what we're talking about, I don't know what we're discussing. So, rather than try to sort this out, I'll be on my way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Can you elaborate a bit on what you said there. There seem to contain much more than I am seeing in these few words.

Sure.

Ego is essentially desire and attachment. There are a great many qualities that are a part of ego. Pride is only one.

 

[nPeace]

In an earlier post, I asked you: Isn't --- feeling proud of your God and feeling that your way of life is superior -- about feeling morally superior because of your religion?

You didn't answer the question specifically, but you said this:



Since the reverse is true far more often, it's usually the Christian claiming moral superiority over the atheist, that line sounded to me like you were defending pride in your Christian religion. If that's not what we're talking about, I don't know what we're discussing. So, rather than try to sort this out, I'll be on my way. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

So the Atheist is jealous of the individual whose practices demonstrate they are more moral, or whose teachings demonstrate they are more moral? Isn't that ego, and pride, on the Atheist's part? Doesn't pride and ego fuel jealousy?

 

[shunyadragon]

So the Atheist is jealous of the individual whose practices demonstrate they are more moral, or whose teachings demonstrate they are more moral? Isn't that ego, and pride, on the Atheist's part? Doesn't pride and ego fuel jealousy?

This is a very egocentric view of what others who believe differently. Also a lack of understanding of what others believe.

There is no indication that atheists are jealous of any others that believe differently.