Efficient Engines

[Revoltingest]

Btw, message to all other posters......
NERD!

 

[exchemist]

This is true for engines like those powering large ships
(gigantic low speed diesels which are designed for max
fuel & operating economy with no real limits on cost, size,
& weight), but not so for small engines in cars.

Yes you have a point there. I suppose I should have said that for small IC engines you won't be able to get anywhere close to the efficiency of a marine diesel, for precisely those reasons. Imagine what an engine with stroke: bore ratio of 4:1 would look like in a car.......

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes you have a point there. I suppose I should have said that for small IC engines you won't be able to get anywhere close to the efficiency of a marine diesel, for precisely those reasons. Imagine what an engine with stroke: bore ratio of 4:1 would look like in a car.......

An OP engine can improve the bore to stroke ratio
since piston speed is halved for any RPM.
But on the other hand, it might allow operating at
higher speed to improve the power to weight ratio.
The market will figure out what combination the
customers want.

 

[Wu Wei]

There are differences though. The extra crankshaft will eat power.
But that's more than offset by the eliminated valve train, eliminated
throttling losses, uniflow savings, & halved piston speed.

Ultimately, it all comes down to how fuel stingy a design is when
it's put into production. Then everything is taken into account.

Actually no there is not a difference, you're just being an engineer again....all of that contributes to the difference between HP and BHP when you are talking an engine that is going to move a vehicle.

What you are now talking about is the amount of power that is removed by a crankshaft as opposed to the amount of power remove by a camshaft or 2, valves and valve springs and its effect on fuel efficiency

And you are pulling a Mrs Wu on me, we were talking horsepower and you switched to fuel efficiency in the middle of the conversation.

 

[Wu Wei]

Note, we are not talking about a standard OP engine, This engine would reduce stroke per cylinder but depends on the pressure of two cylinder, heading towards each other, to get heat for combustion with fuel intake, air intake and exhaust literally on the side of what is the combustion chamber (aka where two cylinders, alomt, meet.

Kind of like one engine on top facing down with no head in the middle

That takes timing, what controls that timing, belts, chains or gears? Reason I ask is this; The old VW Rabbit Diesel used a belt, worked great...that is unless the belt broke, then the piston could impacted the head due to very small tolerances and you had an engine rebuild on your hands. I am not asking this because I am trying to take away from this prototype engine, I am mostly curious. And I also felt the need to point out, although it is similar to the OP engines we are all use to, it is not the same

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually no there is not a difference, you're just being an engineer again....all of that contributes to the difference between HP and BHP when you are talking an engine that is going to move a vehicle.

All we're talking about here is BHP (brake horsepower, ie, power
at the engine, as differentiated from power at the wheel).

For the unfamiliar....
"Brake horsepower" was originally measured on a dynamometer
with a brake applying the load. A Ruston Hornsby teaching
engine I have uses a leather belt (brake) around a big flywheel.
Force on the belt is used to calculate torque. Measuring the
speed allows calculating power.

Btw, the flywheel has an open annular volume filled with water for
cooling. It can get quite messy as the water sloshes out & all over.

What you are now talking about is the amount of power that is removed by a crankshaft as opposed to the amount of power remove by a camshaft or 2, valves and valve springs and its effect on fuel efficiency

Yes.

And you are pulling a Mrs Wu on me, we were talking horsepower and you switched to fuel efficiency in the middle of the conversation.

If I pulled a "Mrs Wu" on you, there'd be bruises all over
your defeated body, & then some make up...er....cuddling.
I do not swing that way!

 

[Revoltingest]

Note, we are not talking about a standard OP engine, This engine would reduce stroke per cylinder but depends on the pressure of two cylinder, heading towards each other, to get heat for combustion with fuel intake, air intake and exhaust literally on the side of what is the combustion chamber (aka where two cylinders, alomt, meet.

To clarify, the stroke (as the term is commonly used to
mean displacement divided by bore area) isn't reduced.
But it's divided between 2 pistons.

That takes timing, what controls that timing, belts, chains or gears? Reason I ask is this; The old VW Rabbit Diesel used a belt, worked great...that is unless the belt broke, then the piston could impacted the head due to very small tolerances and you had an engine rebuild on your hands.

When the belt (or chain) fails, the piston would hit the
valves rather than the head. So I prefer gear actuation.

 

[Wu Wei]

All we're talking about here is BHP (brake horsepower, ie, power
at the engine, as differentiated from power at the wheel).

For the unfamiliar....
"Brake horsepower" was originally measured on a dynamometer
with a brake applying the load. A Ruston Hornsby teaching
engine I have uses a leather belt (brake) around a big flywheel.
Force on the belt is used to calculate torque. Measuring the
speed allows calculating power.

Btw, the flywheel has an open annular volume filled with water for
cooling. It can get quite messy as the water sloshes out & all over.

Yes.

If I pulled a "Mrs Wu" on you, there'd be bruises all over
your defeated body, & then some make up...er....cuddling.
I do not swing that way!

You WISH there would be cuddling, but there wouldn't not with her...and most CERTAINLY now with you...because I don't swing that way fella....she'd just leave me there bruised and broken....and then poke me with needles to make me feel better.....or at least that is what she wants me to beleive

 

[Wu Wei]

To clarify, the stroke (as the term is commonly used to
mean displacement divided by bore area) isn't reduced.
But it's divided between 2 pistons.

When the belt (or chain) fails, the piston would hit the
valves rather than the head. So I prefer gear actuation.

I know it is not reduced ya elitist, lollygagging, no good, layabout, retired, engineering geek, only divided. I was a mechanic and I spent an entire year in college for mechanical engineering before I came to my senses and left that disgusting foul vile profession behind....

Gears would be better in that application, but then gears may take more power than a belt of chain.

 

[Revoltingest]

I know it is not reduced ya elitist, lollygagging, no good, layabout, retired, engineering geek, only divided. I was a mechanic and I spent an entire year in college for mechanical engineering before I came to my senses and left that disgusting foul vile profession behind....

Gears would be better in that application, but then gears may take more power than a belt of chain.

Power isn't everything. Even if belts or chains were mechanically
more efficient, the gains would be more than offset by having the
engine lunched when they failed. Gears...you can trust them.

 

[Wu Wei]

Power isn't everything. Even if belts or chains were mechanically
more efficient, the gains would be more than offset by having the
engine lunched when they failed. Gears...you can trust them.

Agreed, but in the automotive world at company level (Chrysler, Ford, GMC, etc.), what's best does not always win out over what is cheapest

 

[shunyadragon]

I thought you referred to Efficient [search] engines. Oh well . . . I prefer horses.

 

[sun rise]

Hybrids are also good candidates for regenerating gas turbines.
It's very efficient, but only at full power. For a small engine whose
job is only to continuously recharge batteries, it could work.

MY PEV switches to gas at higher speeds or when the batteries are out of juice so it would not work for them. And hybrid's themselves don't run on battery. So I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

[sun rise]

Added bonus of this engine is no throttling losses
typical of spark ignited gasoline engines.
Also it can idle using less fuel. Conventional engines
need a minimum of gasoline to ensure that the fuel
& air mixture is within the flammability range.
Compression ignition can happen at any low ratio.

Hybrids and PEVs shut down their engines at red lights and such.

 

[sun rise]

Agreed, but in the automotive world at company level (Chrysler, Ford, GMC, etc.), what's best does not always win out over what is cheapest

That may be but #1 is what produces the biggest short term profit.

 

[exchemist]

That may be but #1 is what produces the biggest short term profit.

That's far too simple. I can tell you from my former employer's interactions with auto makers that they devote a great deal of resources to looking 10 or 20 years ahead, to see what is coming down the track in terms of customer preferences, competition, regulation, changes in availability of materials (including fuels and lubes) - and the expectations of society. A lot of their investments have a payback of many years. A new engine design for example normally is expected to last 20 years, with progressive upgrades. And a new factory has to be able to cater for the expected changes over 20 years at least. Short-term it is not.

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed, but in the automotive world at company level (Chrysler, Ford, GMC, etc.), what's best does not always win out over what is cheapest

The majority of people won't pay for quality.
So they dictate much of what's on the market.

 

[Revoltingest]

MY PEV switches to gas at higher speeds or when the batteries are out of juice so it would not work for them. And hybrid's themselves don't run on battery. So I'm not sure what you're referring to.

I'm proposing a different kind of approach to hybrids from
what's on the market now. Not just an assist to the battery,
or charger when batteries run low. My system would deliver
a continuous charge, with the battery charge level fluctuating
according to demand. It would work best where loads don't
vary much....not for heavy hauling up & down mountains.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hybrids and PEVs shut down their engines at red lights and such.

Non compression engines can idle using much
less fuel than spark ignited engines. But there
is still the option of stopping & re-starting them
instead of idling.

 

[Secret Chief]

Hybrids and PEVs shut down their engines at red lights and such.

They're getting quite common in the UK, but they'll never sell in Italy (where a red light is considered to be merely a suggestion ).

Driverless electric cars are being (literally) road-tested in the UK too. Godnose who you'd sue in a crash.