Eating meat & Buddhism

[Tonstad39]

Depends.

like fast food lunches (some days Chicken and fish burgers, others: Carne azada burritos) as well as homecooked dinners that feature (usually frozen and packaged) fish or chicken either as a main dish or as a side.

 

[Tonstad39]

Eating meat is fine....except for veal & foie gras.

Before the proceeding posts I didn’t know what those were as no supermarket in my aerea has those.

 

[Revoltingest]

Before the proceeding posts I didn’t know what those were as no supermarket in my aerea has those.

Come to think of it, I've never seen them for sale either.
(I don't go to swanky grocery stores.)

 

[Tonstad39]

you need to defend yourself or be able to build an advantage of muscle and strength for such a day, then is meat/killing living beings justified?

Long story short, I think of myself as Theravana Buddhist, but my Sangha is actually a zen center. I understand that there are multitudes more vegan substitutes for food items now than there was in the days of buddha, but the way I see it: A chicken is slaughtered for the porpose of human nourishment. The chicken has had a previous life that was none to good, The slaugherhouses put her out of her misery—both for income as well as for the nourishment that the chicken’s corpse may provide. I can start ingesting nutritional supplements and aquiering the taste for salad dressing, but is it even worth it at all since everything else in life and in subsequent rebirth would be the exact same either way.

Precedents in Buddhist/Hindu mythology were sought to cover for the incongruity of Buddhists training for war.

at the risk of Derailing the whole forum (as If i hadn’t enough already) Where are these precidents, i am legitimately curious about this now.

 

[ajay0]

Apparently this was an issue in China as the various schools of the martial arts formed around the Chan Buddhist temples. Meat seemed to be a common sin pursued, I suppose, because it helped to build muscle for those warrior monks.

Eating of meat is a later development and rule brought about in the Shaolin temple entirely from external influences.

Warrior monks!?! Even more strange that Buddhist (and also Taoist) teachings would be referenced as these schools of combat were being developed. Precedents in Buddhist/Hindu mythology were sought to cover for the incongruity of Buddhists training for war.

In Buddhism martial arts and exercises came into being on the basis of the Buddha's teaching, " It is a duty to keep the body in good health, or else the mind will not be strong and clear."

Bodhidharma found the buddhist monks inert and passive, and developed the martial arts to keep them in peak physical and mental condition.

It was also taught as a way of protection from wild animals and robbers while travelling in wild jungles.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Veal is not always immoral. Traditionally veal came from calves of milk cows. There is no Mr. and Mrs. Cow on dairy farms. But since foie gras has always come from force fed ducks or geese it has always been immoral.

I think you need to read more about how veal is created - basically by torturing calves.

 

[soulsurvivor]

The five precepts of buddhism go as follows

1. I undertake the precept to avoid taking the lives of living beings
2. I undertake the precept to avoid taking with witch has not been given
3. I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct
4. I undertake the precept to refrain from false speech
5. I undertake the precepts to avoid using intoxicants that lead to carelessness

Buddhism focuses mostly on practicing the way of the dharma. Beit by way of meditation or by way of kindness toward others. Such wholehearted practice leads us toward living the enlightened way.

With this in mind: Is eating meat antithetical to living a good life in the middle realm?

The precepts don't mention anything about not eating meat. That is why most Buddhists eat meat, but they will not kill to eat meat - so the butchers in Buddhist countries are usually muslims.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think you need to read more about how veal is created - basically by torturing calves.

I think you need to pay attention to what I wrote. And calves are not tortured, they are simply treated very poorly. That was not always the case. Today most veal, and again not all veal, is raised in this manner so that it still has the taste and texture of veal.

 

[Tonstad39]

The precepts don't mention anything about not eating meat. That is why most Buddhists eat meat, but they will not kill to eat meat - so the butchers in Buddhist countries are usually muslims.

really...

 

[sealchan]

Long story short, I think of myself as Theravana Buddhist, but my Sangha is actually a zen center. I understand that there are multitudes more vegan substitutes for food items now than there was in the days of buddha, but the way I see it: A chicken is slaughtered for the porpose of human nourishment. The chicken has had a previous life that was none to good, The slaugherhouses put her out of her misery—both for income as well as for the nourishment that the chicken’s corpse may provide. I can start ingesting nutritional supplements and aquiering the taste for salad dressing, but is it even worth it at all since everything else in life and in subsequent rebirth would be the exact same either way.


at the risk of Derailing the whole forum (as If i hadn’t enough already) Where are these precidents, i am legitimately curious about this now.

I recently read Shaolin Monastery by Meir Shahar. My comments in this thread are just what I took away from reading this book. This isn't a topic I would normally speak to but with that book fairly fresh in my head I thought I would contribute. I don't recall the specifics regarding the person/deity the author felt became a popular interest at Shaolin that seemed to address the Buddhists eating meat and going to war dichotomy.

Cheers!

 

[soulsurvivor]

I think you need to pay attention to what I wrote. And calves are not tortured, they are simply treated very poorly. That was not always the case. Today most veal, and again not all veal, is raised in this manner so that it still has the taste and texture of veal.

Hogtied and kept in a position so that someone can not move a muscle or their position for extended periods, is a classic method of torture. This is exactly what is done to calves to produce veal (the idea is to make the muscles and flesh soft - apparently people find that tasty).

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hogtied and kept in a position so that someone can not move a muscle or their position for extended periods, is a classic method of torture. This is exactly what is done to calves to produce veal (the idea is to make the muscles and flesh soft - apparently people find that tasty).

Hogtied? Where? I have seen them kept in very small pens. But never hogtied.

And you continue to ignore the original source and use of veal. You should not let your prejudice keep you ignorant. Do you understand why there are veal calves to start with?

 

[soulsurvivor]

Hogtied? Where? I have seen them kept in very small pens. But never hogtied.

And you continue to ignore the original source and use of veal. You should not let your prejudice keep you ignorant. Do you understand why there are veal calves to start with?

You probably have not seen them all. Anyway, more torture - they are usually fed some gruel that gives them a permanent case of diarrhea and since they can not move, they have sit all their lives in their own filth. Pure torture! There veal calves because people like to eat tender meat and the are plenty of cruel providers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You probably have not seen them all. Anyway, more torture - they are usually fed some gruel that gives them a permanent case of diarrhea and since they can not move, they have sit all their lives in their own filth. Pure torture! There veal calves because people like to eat tender meat and the are plenty of cruel providers.

So you know nothing of farming. Veal arose as a meat source because there is no point in raising male calves at a dairy. They used to be harvested almost immediately. The present practice, for most veal, is inhumane. It was not always so.

And I would be very dubious of sources such as PETA. Calves that sleep in their own wastes would not pass inspection. Also the sort of veal that you oppose is being phased out. Veal creates are being banned in areas. California is the number one dairy state in the U.S. now and it bans veal crates, as do several others. Inhumane veal is on the way out. In many cases the calves are harvested very early, or are no longer raised under those conditions:

Veal - Wikipedia

 

[soulsurvivor]

So you know nothing of farming. Veal arose as a meat source because there is no point in raising male calves at a dairy. They used to be harvested almost immediately. The present practice, for most veal, is inhumane. It was not always so.

And I would be very dubious of sources such as PETA. Calves that sleep in their own wastes would not pass inspection. Also the sort of veal that you oppose is being phased out. Veal creates are being banned in areas. California is the number one dairy state in the U.S. now and it bans veal crates, as do several others. Inhumane veal is on the way out. In many cases the calves are harvested very early, or are no longer raised under those conditions:

Veal - Wikipedia

Glad to know that things are improving for veal production, but factory farming of regular beef or pork isn't all that humane either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Glad to know that things are improving for veal production, but factory farming of regular beef or pork isn't all that humane either.

That is somewhat true. The pork that people eat today likely never saw the light of day. Beef cattle tend to be free roaming until near the end of their lives when they are sent to feed lots. And though I love meat, the days of meat being plentiful and cheap may be numbered. From my understanding the current production methods of meat raising consume quite a lot of grain and add significantly to global warming. Both strong negatives in an ever more crowded world.

 

[ajay0]

The precepts don't mention anything about not eating meat. That is why most Buddhists eat meat, but they will not kill to eat meat - so the butchers in Buddhist countries are usually muslims.

There are buddhist butchers and hindu butchers. It just so happens that non-vegetarian food stimulates the taste buds better than vegetarian food, so temptation to eat non-vegetarian food is there in almost everyone. Some abstain, most cave in to their temptations.

This is similar to those who had been prescribed strict dieting by their doctors due to heart disease, still indulging in steaks and burgers unable to control their cravings.

 

[soulsurvivor]

There are buddhist butchers and hindu butchers. It just so happens that non-vegetarian food stimulates the taste buds better than vegetarian food, so temptation to eat non-vegetarian food is there in almost everyone. Some abstain, most cave in to their temptations.

This is similar to those who had been prescribed strict dieting by their doctors due to heart disease, still indulging in steaks and burgers unable to control their cravings.

You must be the all-knowing brahmin butcher.

 

[ajay0]

You must be the all-knowing brahmin butcher.

How is this a coherent response to my post!

 

[soulsurvivor]

How is this a coherent response to my post!

Your exact words were: 'there are buddhist butchers'. So you should either name one buddhist butcher or show where you have heard of one. If you can't than you are just blowing smoke. In which case, you don't deserve a coherent response.

Here is a reference for what I was saying: Islam