Eastern Lightning: Debating the Persecution and Legality of "Cults" in China

[Laika]

About a week ago, I found myself watching a christian film on Youtube titled "the lies of communism", produced by "The Church of Almighty God". I managed to sit through about three-quarters of it before skipping to see the end. The film, to the extent it has a plot, follows the journey of christian missionaries, already tortured by the government, through one of China's [sadly real] re-education facilities. It is somewhat based on real-life experiences of religious people in China, though how much I'm not sure. The film may very legitimately be wish-fulfilment for a people, seeking to portray themselves in a favourable light, whilst unable to speak for themselves in those real-life situations due to persecution.

Whilst there is an obvious propaganda element to the film, with characters providing extremely long monologues on their beliefs and their correctness, it brings up very real issues relating to religious freedom in China and to the treatment of religious groups designated as cults more generally.

I spent a good chunk of the film going back and forth on whose side I'm on; the plucky missionaries facing persecution and torture, utterly insistent in their moral righteous and spectacularly crude belief in God or the Chinese government's efforts at re-education, trying to bring the "heroes" down by undermining their faith, with bemused officials endlessly repeating the word "science" as the justification for the Communist Party's policies and rule.

[On a hunch, I think the film downplays the government's arguments for atheism, but I can attest that the "role of labour in the formation of human consciousness" at the 58 minute mark, which infuriates the missionary forced to read it from a book, is authentically and embarrassingly Marxist in its origins, dating back to Fredrich Engels. The rest of the depiction of the Chinese Communists has a Marxian tone, but is more subdued. So it is possible the CCP is really that dumb to just say "science" as if it the answer to everything as Marxism isn't very good on saying "why" it's atheist to begin with. ]

Though I did enjoy the spectacularly and refreshingly naive belief that one side is "good" and the other "evil", finding myself wanting to cheer on the "villains" plotting on how best to "reform" Christians in to model atheist citizens unsurprisingly makes me feel uneasy. If you think "thought reform" is ok, it is only a matter of time before it is used against you. The experience nevertheless shines a spotlight on the reality of religious persecution and state atheism in the People's Republic of China which may be worth sharing.

The Church of Almighty God, also known as "Eastern Lightning", is a millennial group that claims Jesus Christ has returned as a Chinese woman in 1991, believed to be Yang Xiagbin (b. 1973) now thought to be living in the United States after being granted asylum. Chinese authorities claim that Yang suffers from a history of mental illness. The name Eastern Lightning comes from the passage in Matthew (24:27): "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Since having roughly a thousand members in 1991, the group has grown to perhaps three or four million members based on Chinese government estimates. In 1995, the Chinese government classified Eastern Lightning as a cult. The group has been described as the nation's "most dangerous cult" by Chinese media and it has been labelled a "terrorist organisation" by Christian opponents and media internationally, though the group denies all accusations of this. Because the group is essentially clandestine and operating underground, it remains extremely secretive with very limited information available on the group to western observers.

Members of the group have been involved in a mass kidnapping, doomsday riots related to the Mayan end of the world prophesy in 2012, and the murder of a woman who refused to provide a phone number for contact details when demanded to by missionaries.

Eastern Lightning is banned in China, with the US state department claiming that in 2018 over 11,000 members of the group were arrested, with 525 members subjected to torture and forced indoctrination, and that "some" were tortured to death whilst in custody of the Chinese authorities. In 2020, there were claims that at least 32,815 Church members were persecuted in 2019 (compared to 23,567 in 2018), with at least 19 members dying from the result of abused (compared to 20 from 2018).

My question is quite simple. If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion? Or would you continue to prevent them from worshipping according to their beliefs based on the assessment they are a dangerous cult and a threat to the government?

[Either way, you can see the group's content on youtube using English subtitles. A further news article on the group is available here. ("Sixth Tone" is a media company controlled by the Chinese Communist Party) ]

 

[sun rise]

My question is quite simple. If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion? Or would you continue to prevent them from worshipping according to their beliefs based on the assessment they are a dangerous cult and a threat to the government?

Cult is one of those words whose meaning is argued about. My approach starts with do they isolate members from contact with others, do they harass those who want to leave and do they demand submission to a leader.

If people are encouraged to be in the world, allow people to freely choose to leave and don't insist on unquestioning submission, they're not a cult.

Eastern Lightning - Wikipedia seems to me to lean to their not being a cult.

Also, the leadership of China is utterly in terror of losing any of their power and privilege and therefore attacks any who might possibly be seen as potentially an alternative source of power.

Knowing how terrorized China is about the Dalai Lama, Falun Gong, etc, I put Eastern LIghtening in the same category.

All of these are a threat to the tyrannical and absolutist Chinese government by their very nature and to me that government does need internal challenges.

In an open or moderately open society, I don't see them as a terrorist threat nor as a cult so they should be free to believe what they believe unless and until I learn something negative about them.

 

[Kooky]

[On a hunch, I think the film downplays the government's arguments for atheism, but I can attest that the "role of labour in the formation of human consciousness" at the 58 minute mark, which infuriates the missionary forced to read it from a book, is authentically and embarrassingly Marxist in its origins, dating back to Fredrich Engels. The rest of the depiction of the Chinese Communists has a Marxian tone, but is more subdued. So it is possible the CCP is really that dumb to just say "science" as if it the answer to everything as Marxism isn't very good on saying "why" it's atheist to begin with. ] ]

That's a pity, as Marx himself makes an, I believe, fairly cogent argument why religion should be discarded, at least from the relatively limited definition of religion he and his philosophy is operating under. Now, you could make an argument that, although I personally find the original Marxian treatment of religion fairly even-handed, it is still a relatively narrow and one-sided perspective on people's spiritual practices, and that religion can be just as easily incorporated into revolutionary practice as it has in modes of oppression, but the political descendants of Marx have taken a different and, in my opinion, intellectually poor and narrow-minded tack.

And even as someone who can often be highly critical of established religion, it still pains me to see the simplistic and, frankly, stupid atheism of the Dengist tyrant-state used as a blunt instrument of oppression.

My question is quite simple. If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion? Or would you continue to prevent them from worshipping according to their beliefs based on the assessment they are a dangerous cult and a threat to the government?

As you say, the information about this cult we have access to is fairly limited, so I don't think I could make that call. That said, there are plenty of cults that are essentially ponzi schemes or scams perpetuated for the benefit of a few select members, which probably do warrant a critical eye, although perhaps not the heavy-handed oppression the PRC regime likes to dish out.

 

[Laika]

Knowing how terrorized China is about the Dalai Lama, Falun Gong, etc, I put Eastern LIghtening in the same category.

I have heard there is a fear of something like the Taiping rebellion (1850-1864) happening again, as that was another instance where someone in China claimed to be Jesus. (The rebellion killed about 20-30 million people, so I can't blame them).

 

[stvdv]

unless and until I learn something negative about them.

Reading below article, the group does not seem 'good' to me, but maybe its fake news. Anyway China is pictured also as not good in the article. I do know that fanatic religious people are trouble, so I can understand that China don't want them. I kick people out of my house, if they tell me that I am going to Hell, and that my Guru is bad and that kind of stuff. If you have a group of Spiritual people who do not have this fanatism that others should be converted, and they just do their own thing, then I can't imagine that China has a problem with it. I have no problem with that.

Evangelizing is a violent act (belittling the other). And we all know that violence creates violence. Reading the article, this group might not be Saints themselves

The Cult Who Kidnaps Christians and Is at War with the Chinese Government

 

[PureX]

The population of China is nearly 1.4 BILLION people. No government ever devised is capable of controlling that many humans in a manner that those humans do not agree to be controlled. Especially over an extended period of time. So I believe we should allow the Chinese people to decide for themselves what they wish to tolerate in terms of government regulation, and what they will not. NOT US.

It's not up to you or I to be determining the policies of the Chinese government and how it chooses to control the Chinese people. The Chinese people are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves. All 1.4 billion of them.

 

[danieldemol]

My question is quite simple. If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion? Or would you continue to prevent them from worshipping according to their beliefs based on the assessment they are a dangerous cult and a threat to the government?

I would have someone infiltrate the organisation, document the beliefs and obtain publications of the group.

Then I would assess which beliefs where harmless or neutral, and which beliefs were crossing the line into terrorism (note: non-militant opposition to the communist party would not be considered a threat).

They would then be permitted to practice the non-harmful elements of their religion, but anyone wishing to preach militance would be arrested (albeit not tortured in prison).

Also when I say "I" would assess which elements of the religion are harmful it would be up to a panel of people, not one individual to decide.

 

[danieldemol]

I have heard there is a fear of something like the Taiping rebellion (1850-1864) happening again, as that was another instance where someone in China claimed to be Jesus. (The rebellion killed about 20-30 million people, so I can't blame them).

Your focus seems to be centred on the claim to be Jesus rather than the extent to which the group preaches militancy, however there are numerous examples of sects with Jesus claims which preach pacifism, so I would suggest your focus is not centred where it should be in my opinion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The population of China is nearly 1.4 BILLION people. No government ever devised is capable of controlling that many humans in a manner that those humans do not agree to be controlled. Especially over an extended period of time. So I believe we should allow the Chinese people to decide for themselves what they wish to tolerate in terms of government regulation, and what they will not. NOT US.

It's not up to you or I to be determining the policies of the Chinese government and how it chooses to control the Chinese people. The Chinese people are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves. All 1.4 billion of them.

Communism is not China. It's a cancer that literally ate the country whole 76 years ago for dinner. That's only one lifespan away.

It destroyed the country and like a zombie it only serves to consume and destroy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion?

They are a terrorist group and should not be granted legal permissions to exist. Being a Christian is one thing, but when a group displays cult behaviors and conducts terrorism that is another thing entirely, and it should not be tolerated.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The population of China is nearly 1.4 BILLION people. No government ever devised is capable of controlling that many humans in a manner that those humans do not agree to be controlled. Especially over an extended period of time. So I believe we should allow the Chinese people to decide for themselves what they wish to tolerate in terms of government regulation, and what they will not. NOT US.

It's not up to you or I to be determining the policies of the Chinese government and how it chooses to control the Chinese people. The Chinese people are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves. All 1.4 billion of them.

So should we not condemn the genocide under Mao? Are we supposed to turn a blind eye and excuse the practice of torture all in the name of cultural relativism?
No I, said the Wolf.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That's a pity, as Marx himself makes an, I believe, fairly cogent argument why religion should be discarded, at least from the relatively limited definition of religion he and his philosophy is operating under. Now, you could make an argument that, although I personally find the original Marxian treatment of religion fairly even-handed, it is still a relatively narrow and one-sided perspective on people's spiritual practices, and that religion can be just as easily incorporated into revolutionary practice as it has in modes of oppression, but the political descendants of Marx have taken a different and, in my opinion, intellectually poor and narrow-minded tack.

And even as someone who can often be highly critical of established religion, it still pains me to see the simplistic and, frankly, stupid atheism of the Dengist tyrant-state used as a blunt instrument of oppression.

It is very strange that Marx is known as being vehemently anti-religious, with banning religion being attached to his name, but it's impossible to actually support that claim with what Marx wrote. And what he did write, one would think it impossible to be from Marx if we believe the common myths and outright lies widely believed about him.
"To develop in greater spiritual freedom, a people must break their bondage to their bodily needs—they must cease to be the slaves of the body. They must, above all, have time at their disposal for spiritual creative activity and spiritual enjoyment." - Karl Marx, Wages of Labour.
But I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised. After all, Nietzsche is often thought to be a Nazi because of what his sister did to him. That Marx gets so frequently criticized by people who have never read his works and make it obviously they know nothing about what Marxism actually is, it's hardly the only time people do that (like Evangelicals and Harry Potter).

 

[1213]

... If you were the Chinese authorities, would you protect the rights of members of Eastern Lightning to practice their religion? Or would you continue to prevent them from worshipping according to their beliefs based on the assessment they are a dangerous cult and a threat to the government?...

I think it depends on what is the danger and is the danger because of the teachings of the “cult” or is just some individuals own solution.

But, generally, if I would be the authority, I think people should be free. And I think the only acceptable purpose of a government is to protect the freedom of people. This means, if some group or people really do something against other people’s freedom, that is wrong and there should be a punishment for doing that. And only preemptive measure that I think is acceptable is that people know what will happen, if they have done wrongly.

 

[PureX]

Communism is not China. It's a cancer that literally ate the country whole 76 years ago for dinner. That's only one lifespan away.

It destroyed the country and like a zombie it only serves to consume and destroy.

That is all your opinion, based on western bias and propaganda. And has nothing to do with the Chinese people's opinion of their government.

 

[PureX]

So should we not condemn the genocide under Mao? Are we supposed to turn a blind eye and excuse the practice of torture all in the name of cultural relativism?
No I, said the Wolf.

We can sputter in self-righteousness all we want. But in the end it's the Chinese people who are responsible for the actions of their own government. Not us.

 

[Kooky]

We can sputter in self-righteousness all we want. But in the end it's the Chinese people who are responsible for the actions of their own government. Not us.

I'd put forward that nobody is directly responsible for the actions of their own government, safe the decisionmakers inside that government and the people who actively support those decisions.

 

[PureX]

I'd put forward that nobody is directly responsible for the actions of their own government, safe the decisionmakers inside that government and the people who actively support those decisions.

There are 1.4 billion Chinese people in China. No government could possibly stand against them if they decided they no longer wished to tolerate it.

The same is true here in the U.S.,. Our government is not God. We do not have to "obey it's wishes". At any time we choose, we can disband it and replace it. All we have to do is decide to do so.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We can sputter in self-righteousness all we want. But in the end it's the Chinese people who are responsible for the actions of their own government. Not us.

And I choose to condemn female genital mutilation. I don't care if it's a culturally accepted practice in some places. It's savage, it's barbarous, those women need help to get pressure going to end the practice. I choose to condemn where homosexuals are prosecuted, damn any and all cultural practices that promote it. And good thing many governments are willing to speak with nations who have wrongfully imprisoned tourists or students as spies and insist they did wrong. And it's great many people do condemn the culturally accepted and practiced misogyny that gets people like Malala Yousafzai shot and has them running here for their lives.

 

[Pete in Panama]

I'd put forward that nobody is directly responsible for the actions of their own government, safe the decisionmakers inside that government and the people who actively support those decisions.

A very interesting supposition indeed.

My experience is that governments tend to take on a life of their own, and when huge groups of the population try to protest they get met (what I personally saw here in Panama) w/ acid sprayed on the protesters followed by mass arrests and beatings. So sure the people can rise up, but it's definitely not for the faint of heart.

Meanwhile other huge groups just try to mind their own business and say they're being "practical". After it all goes to hell, falls completely apart & gets rebuilt, they're sooo surprised that the bad guy in charge had gone so far. My understanding is that this was the case in post-war Germany too.

 

[PureX]

And I choose to condemn female genital mutilation..

You can condemn it all you want. But in the end it's going to be their call. Because it's their culture, and their responsibility to change it.