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Earliest known humans in America at least 30,000 years ago

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Earliest known humans in America 30,000 years ago

I have alway supported the sea coastal route of the first Americans, because it is easy with abundant food and the Japanes current and the general lack of hazardous weather. The Japanese curent warms the whole route even in the Ice Age. The overland route was never really a condender, because of many hazards including huge bears that can run 30-40 miles an hour, and alase 30,000 years ago it was barely crossable if that.

Source: Earliest evidence for humans in the Americas


Earliest evidence for humans in the Americas
By Paul Rincon
Science editor, BBC News website

Humans settled in the Americas much earlier than previously thought, according to new finds from Mexico.

They suggest people were living there 33,000 years ago, twice the widely accepted age for the earliest settlement of the Americas.

The results are based on work at Chiquihuite Cave, a high-altitude rock shelter in central Mexico.

Archaeologists found thousands of stone tools suggesting the cave was used by people for at least 20,000 years.

Ice age

During the second half of the 20th Century, a consensus emerged among North American archaeologists the Clovis people had been the first to reach the Americas, about 11,500 years ago.

The Clovis were thought to have crossed a land bridge linking Siberia to Alaska during the last ice age.

This land bridge - known as Beringia - subsequently disappeared underwater as the ice melted.

And these big-game hunters were thought to have contributed to the extinction of the megafauna - large mammals such as mammoth, mastodon and various species of bear that roamed the region until the end of the last ice age.

Break down

As the "Clovis First" idea took hold, reports of earlier human settlement were dismissed as unreliable and archaeologists stopped looking for signs of earlier occupation.

But in the 1970s, this orthodoxy started to break down.

In the 1980s, solid evidence for a 14,500-year-old human presence at Monte Verde, Chile, emerged.

And since the 2000s, other pre-Clovis sites have become widely accepted - including the 15,500-year-old Buttermilk Creek site in central Texas.

Now, Ciprian Ardelean, from the Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas, Mexico, Tom Higham, from the University of Oxford, and colleagues have found evidence of human occupation stretching back far beyond that date, at the Chiquihuite site in the central-northern Mexican Highlands.

The results have been published in the journal Nature.

"This is a unique site, we've never seen anything like it before," Prof Higham, the director of Oxford's Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, told BBC News.

"The stone-tool evidence is very, very compelling.

"Anyone can see that these are deliberately manufactured stone tools and there are lots of them.

"The dating - which is my job - is robust.

"And so, it's a very exciting site to have been involved in."

Dating techniques

The team excavated a 3m-deep (10ft) stratigraphic section - a sequence of soil layers arranged in the order they were deposited - and found some 1,900 stone artefacts made over thousands of years.

Researchers were able to date bone, charcoal and sediment associated with the stone tools, using two scientific dating techniques.

The first, radiocarbon dating, relies on the way a radioactive form of the element carbon (carbon-14) is known to decay over time.

The second, optically stimulated luminescence (OSL), works by measuring the last time sediments were exposed to light.

Using two different techniques "added a lot of credibility and strength, particularly to the older part of the chronology", Prof Higham said.

"The optical dates and [radiocarbon] dates are in good agreement," he said.

And the findings could lead scientists to take a fresh look at controversial early occupation sites elsewhere in the Americas.

"In Brazil, there are several sites where you have stone tools that look robust to me and are dated 26-30,000, similar dates to the Chiquihuite site," Prof Higham said.

"This could be an important discovery that could stimulate new work to find other sites in the Americas that date to this period."

Travel options

During the period known as the last glacial maximum, 26,000-19,000 years ago, sea levels were sufficiently low to allow people to cross Beringia into America easily. But what about earlier times?

"Before 26,000 years ago, the latest data suggest that Beringia might have been a rather unattractive place for humans to be. It might well have been boggy and very difficult to traverse," said Prof Higham.

"We still think the most likely scenario is for people to have come was on a coastal route - hugging a coast - perhaps with some kind of maritime technology, which by that stage people in other parts of the world had certainly developed."

While people seem to have been in the Americas before the last glacial maximum, they seem to have been thin on the ground. It's only much later, between 14,000 and 15,000 years ago, that populations seem to increase substantially.

It coincides with the temperature spike at the end of the last Ice Age, when jumps of 7C are seen in the space of two to three years.

Native Americans
The scientists also used "environmental DNA" techniques to look for human genetic material in the cave sediments.

But they could not find a strong enough signal.

Previous DNA evidence has shown the Clovis settlers shared many similarities with modern Native Americans.

And scientists will now want to understand how these older populations relate to later human groups who inhabited the continent.

In the same issue of Nature, Prof Higham and Lorena Becerra-Valdivia, also from Oxford, describe how they used ages from 42 archaeological sites in North America and Beringia to explore how humans expanded.

The results reveal the signal of a pre-Clovis human presence stretching back to the last glacial maximum at least.
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
One of my things is cro magnon, a few years ago i watched a documentary claiming cro magnon people could have hopped along the edge of the ice from europe to america. The reason for the claim is that several finds of stone tools in America are remarkable like those of European cro magnon.

I cannot find the documentary online, just looked but what i did find was interesting,

Remarkable New Evidence for Human Activity in North America 130,000 Years Ago | Science | Smithsonian Magazine
I've heard about that too, here's the link to a wikipedia page about the Solutrean hypothesis...

Solutrean hypothesis - Wikipedia
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Thanks, most interesting
It's a pity i can't find the documentary, i would have liked to see it again
the article mentions a controversy over a CBC documentary..."An episode of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary The Nature of Things in January 2018 was widely criticized by scientists and Native Americans for its uncritical presentation of the Solutrean hypothesis"

And I remember a series or special on History or Nat Geo (or some similar channel) that also covered this hypothesis, as well as the Kennewick Man controversy...
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
the article mentions a controversy over a CBC documentary..."An episode of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary The Nature of Things in January 2018 was widely criticized by scientists and Native Americans for its uncritical presentation of the Solutrean hypothesis"

And I remember a series or special on History or Nat Geo (or some similar channel) that also covered this hypothesis, as well as the Kennewick Man controversy...


Yes it's a contravertial idea that needs much more evidence to gain acceptence. like all new scientific ideas, it will ruffle feathers or die to be ever heard of again
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
OThe reason for the claim is that several finds of stone tools in America are remarkable like those of European cro magnon.
Of course, one shouldn't forget that two different tool makers, trying to make a tool for a single, fairly simple function, are quite likely to hit on similar designs.

I think it fascinating that when the Spaniards first encountered the native Central Americans, how much of their culture was immediately recognizable: religious buildings, palaces, gold and silver work, home and body decorations, and so much more. So much, in fact, that it didn't take very long before the language barrier was broken...there were so many familiar things that could be named and translated.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
One of my things is cro magnon, a few years ago i watched a documentary claiming cro magnon people could have hopped along the edge of the ice from europe to america. The reason for the claim is that several finds of stone tools in America are remarkable like those of European cro magnon.

I cannot find the documentary online, just looked but what i did find was interesting,

Remarkable New Evidence for Human Activity in North America 130,000 Years Ago | Science | Smithsonian Magazine

I do believe there was possibly two different migrations from the Pasific and the Atlantic, and the Clovis culture maybe related to a European migration along the edge of the ice sheet, but the evidence other than similarity of tools is not strong. The genetics of the early Native Americans indicates the ancestors were Paleo Siberians. I still go with repeated migrations along the Pacific coast of Asia and America. Yes the migrations may have begun as early as 130,000 years or earlier. If there were migrations from Europe they did not leave their genetic mark on the Native Americans, The similarity between European Cro-Magnon and the Clovis culture is weak, and the evolution of tools among Paleo human cultures may be similar based on the nature of the evolution of the need for the type of hunting demanded.

The following is an OK reference describing the genetic origin of Native Americans.

Who Were the Ancestors of Native Americans? A Lost People in Siberia, Scientists Say.

There is evidence of repeated migrations along the Pacific Coast and references will follow.
 

Cherub786

Member
These discoveries, such as Kennewick Man, have significant bearing on the present political discourse surrounding so-called "Native Americans". Science has proven they aren't native or indigenous at all, and even cast some doubt on the idea of them being the "First Nations" of mankind that arrived in the Americas. However, latest DNA studies have demonstrated that Kennewick Man is of the same population or "race" as today's so-called "Native Americans", but that doesn't disprove the idea that there were other populations that were present in the Americas before them.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Earliest known humans in America 30,000 years ago

I have alway supported the sea coastal route of the first Americans, because it is easy with abundant food and the Japanes current and the general lack of hazardous weather. The Japanese curent warms the whole route even in the Ice Age. The overland route was never really a condender, because of many hazards including huge bears that can run 30-40 miles an hour, and alase 30,000 years ago it was barely crossable if that.

Source: Earliest evidence for humans in the Americas


Earliest evidence for humans in the Americas
By Paul Rincon
Science editor, BBC News website

Humans settled in the Americas much earlier than previously thought, according to new finds from Mexico.

They suggest people were living there 33,000 years ago, twice the widely accepted age for the earliest settlement of the Americas.

The results are based on work at Chiquihuite Cave, a high-altitude rock shelter in central Mexico.

Archaeologists found thousands of stone tools suggesting the cave was used by people for at least 20,000 years.

Ice age

During the second half of the 20th Century, a consensus emerged among North American archaeologists the Clovis people had been the first to reach the Americas, about 11,500 years ago.

The Clovis were thought to have crossed a land bridge linking Siberia to Alaska during the last ice age.

This land bridge - known as Beringia - subsequently disappeared underwater as the ice melted.

And these big-game hunters were thought to have contributed to the extinction of the megafauna - large mammals such as mammoth, mastodon and various species of bear that roamed the region until the end of the last ice age.

Break down

As the "Clovis First" idea took hold, reports of earlier human settlement were dismissed as unreliable and archaeologists stopped looking for signs of earlier occupation.

But in the 1970s, this orthodoxy started to break down.

In the 1980s, solid evidence for a 14,500-year-old human presence at Monte Verde, Chile, emerged.

And since the 2000s, other pre-Clovis sites have become widely accepted - including the 15,500-year-old Buttermilk Creek site in central Texas.

Now, Ciprian Ardelean, from the Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas, Mexico, Tom Higham, from the University of Oxford, and colleagues have found evidence of human occupation stretching back far beyond that date, at the Chiquihuite site in the central-northern Mexican Highlands.

The results have been published in the journal Nature.

"This is a unique site, we've never seen anything like it before," Prof Higham, the director of Oxford's Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, told BBC News.

"The stone-tool evidence is very, very compelling.

"Anyone can see that these are deliberately manufactured stone tools and there are lots of them.

"The dating - which is my job - is robust.

"And so, it's a very exciting site to have been involved in."

Dating techniques

The team excavated a 3m-deep (10ft) stratigraphic section - a sequence of soil layers arranged in the order they were deposited - and found some 1,900 stone artefacts made over thousands of years.

Researchers were able to date bone, charcoal and sediment associated with the stone tools, using two scientific dating techniques.

The first, radiocarbon dating, relies on the way a radioactive form of the element carbon (carbon-14) is known to decay over time.

The second, optically stimulated luminescence (OSL), works by measuring the last time sediments were exposed to light.

Using two different techniques "added a lot of credibility and strength, particularly to the older part of the chronology", Prof Higham said.

"The optical dates and [radiocarbon] dates are in good agreement," he said.

And the findings could lead scientists to take a fresh look at controversial early occupation sites elsewhere in the Americas.

"In Brazil, there are several sites where you have stone tools that look robust to me and are dated 26-30,000, similar dates to the Chiquihuite site," Prof Higham said.

"This could be an important discovery that could stimulate new work to find other sites in the Americas that date to this period."

Travel options

During the period known as the last glacial maximum, 26,000-19,000 years ago, sea levels were sufficiently low to allow people to cross Beringia into America easily. But what about earlier times?

"Before 26,000 years ago, the latest data suggest that Beringia might have been a rather unattractive place for humans to be. It might well have been boggy and very difficult to traverse," said Prof Higham.

"We still think the most likely scenario is for people to have come was on a coastal route - hugging a coast - perhaps with some kind of maritime technology, which by that stage people in other parts of the world had certainly developed."

While people seem to have been in the Americas before the last glacial maximum, they seem to have been thin on the ground. It's only much later, between 14,000 and 15,000 years ago, that populations seem to increase substantially.

It coincides with the temperature spike at the end of the last Ice Age, when jumps of 7C are seen in the space of two to three years.

Native Americans
The scientists also used "environmental DNA" techniques to look for human genetic material in the cave sediments.

But they could not find a strong enough signal.

Previous DNA evidence has shown the Clovis settlers shared many similarities with modern Native Americans.

And scientists will now want to understand how these older populations relate to later human groups who inhabited the continent.

In the same issue of Nature, Prof Higham and Lorena Becerra-Valdivia, also from Oxford, describe how they used ages from 42 archaeological sites in North America and Beringia to explore how humans expanded.

The results reveal the signal of a pre-Clovis human presence stretching back to the last glacial maximum at least.
There seems to be a twist with that. Results came in for a man with the oldest DNA in America...


This Man's DNA Is the Oldest in North America | Live Science

It seems his origins came from the Pacific Islands rather than crossing an ancient land bridge.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
There seems to be a twist with that. Results came in for a man with the oldest DNA in America...


This Man's DNA Is the Oldest in North America | Live Science

It seems his origins came from the Pacific Islands rather than crossing an ancient land bridge.

That is not likely. Yes the inhabitants of the Pacific Islands have a common ancestor with the Native Americans, and this common ancestor is Paleo Siberians and other indigenous Paleo-Asians that are among the ancestors in Asia of all the Orientals, the Native Americans, and those that migrated out from Asia to the South Pacific Islands.

Our Paleo-Asian and Asian Neolithic ancestors were a sea faring people. Paleo-Asians migrated to the Americas between 30,000 and possibly over 139,000. The same Paleo-Asians migrated to the Pacific Islands, but the migrations to America are earlier.
 
Last edited:

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I do believe there was possibly two different migrations from the Pasific and the Atlantic, and the Clovis culture maybe related to a European migration along the edge of the ice sheet, but the evidence other than similarity of tools is not strong. The genetics of the early Native Americans indicates the ancestors were Paleo Siberians. I still go with repeated migrations along the Pacific coast of Asia and America. Yes the migrations may have begun as early as 130,000 years or earlier. If there were migrations from Europe they did not leave their genetic mark on the Native Americans, The similarity between European Cro-Magnon and the Clovis culture is weak, and the evolution of tools among Paleo human cultures may be similar based on the nature of the evolution of the need for the type of hunting demanded.

The following is an OK reference describing the genetic origin of Native Americans.

Who Were the Ancestors of Native Americans? A Lost People in Siberia, Scientists Say.

There is evidence of repeated migrations along the Pacific Coast and references will follow.

i agree.

If cro magnon made it then it must have been in very small numbers who died out.
 
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