each year many unborn babies are deliberately aborted.

[Twilight Hue]

in God's eyes human life is sacred

Makes me wonder what's the higher rate between God's abortion clinic (miscarrage) vs Man's abortion clinic (clinical)?

 

[Prestor John]

Says who?
Oh yeah...
Humans.

Interesting the self serving righteousness reeking from your above quoted bold empty claim.

Are you claiming that you do not have the right to live?

 

[Prestor John]

Makes me wonder what's the higher rate between God's abortion clinic (miscarrage) vs Man's abortion clinic (clinical)?

Are you claiming that every thing bad that happens in our world is God's fault?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you claiming that every thing bad that happens in our world is God's fault?

Are you claiming that I'm claiming that everything bad that happens in our world is gods fault ?

 

[Prestor John]

Are you claiming that I'm claiming that everything bad that happens in our world is gods fault ?

You are the one conflating miscarriages with abortions, not me.

An abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

By conflating abortions with miscarriages you are implying that miscarriages are deliberately caused by God.

If you are willing to argue that miscarriages (commonly recognized as a "bad" thing) are deliberately caused by God, then is it so farfetched for me to ask you if you also believe that all "bad things" that happen are God's fault?

 

[Twilight Hue]

You are the one conflating miscarriages with abortions, not me.

An abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

By conflating abortions with miscarriages you are implying that miscarriages are deliberately caused by God.

If you are willing to argue that miscarriages (commonly recognized as a "bad" thing) are deliberately caused by God, then is it so farfetched for me to ask you if you also believe that all "bad things" that happen are God's fault?

I don't believe in God. I'm expanding on the premise givin out that abortion is just as natural (or divine) as it is clinical. Abortion is abortion. The termination of pregnancy.

Miscarriages, from a standpoint of theism, would be concidered God's fault for which as much, if not more miscarriages occur than that of clinical terminations of pregnancy.

It's a way of saying it's the pot calling the other kettle black.

 

[Prestor John]

I don't believe in God.

Irrelevant.

I'm expanding on the premise givin out that abortion is just as natural (or divine) as it is clinical.

Nope.

Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

If a pregnant woman accidentally falls and ends up miscarrying, that was not a deliberate termination.

Abortion is abortion. The termination of pregnancy.

Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

Miscarriages, from a standpoint of theism, would be concidered God's fault for which as much, if not more miscarriages occur than that of clinical terminations of pregnancy.

I am a theist and I don't believe God pushes any pregnant women down the stairs.

We live in an imperfect world where imperfect things happen.

You cannot claim that God deliberately causes miscarriages anymore than you can claim that He deliberately causes any other physical malady or woe.

You cannot conflate abortions with miscarriages because one is a natural, if unfortunate, process while the other is a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

It's a way of saying it's the pot calling the other kettle black.

If you really believed that this was a case of "calling the other kettle black", then aren't you essentially admitting that you claimed that God can be blamed for all bad things that happen?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Irrelevant.

Nope.

Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

If a pregnant woman accidentally falls and ends up miscarrying, that was not a deliberate termination.

Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

I am a theist and I don't believe God pushes any pregnant women down the stairs.

We live in an imperfect world where imperfect things happen.

You cannot claim that God deliberately causes miscarriages anymore than you can claim that He deliberately causes any other physical malady or woe.

You cannot conflate abortions with miscarriages because one is a natural, if unfortunate, process while the other is a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

If you really believed that this was a case of "calling the other kettle black", then aren't you essentially admitting that you claimed that God can be blamed for all bad things that happen?

Of course I can.

God deliberately didn't do anything to stop it. Unless of course , which becomes the case then, that there are just some things God cannot do and just stands helplessly aside powerless.

 

[Prestor John]

Of course I can.

God deliberately didn't do anything to stop it. Unless of course , which becomes the case then, that there are just some things God cannot do and just stands helplessly aside powerless.

I'm going to try to explain this as simply as I can.

Consider for a moment that God is perfect.

One aspect of being a perfected Being is that you cannot lie. Your word is your bond.

Now consider that God placed His children into an imperfect world according to a plan that was based on His promise that they were allowed a period of time when they were free to act for themselves without His constant intervention.

This time was given to His children to test whether or not they had the desire to become as He is. Perfect.

He promised His children that they would be free to choose between Good and Evil. He would not force their hand to choose one or the other.

This promise would also cause them to be subject to all the imperfections that mortality had to offer. Such as sickness, pain and death.

This "promise" is a little more complicated than I am sharing now, but I'm trying to make it as simple as possible.

So, if God is a perfected Being, could He go back on His promise and constantly intervene when any "bad thing" happened to His children, thus making Him a liar and voiding His perfection?

If He could void His own perfection, was He ever perfect to begin with?

If God is perfect, there are some things that He won't do in our world.

It is not because He does not want to or that He does not have the power to.

It is because He made us a promise and He will forever keep His promises.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm going to try to explain this as simply as I can.

Consider for a moment that God is perfect.

One aspect of being a perfected Being is that you cannot lie. Your word is your bond.

Now consider that God placed His children into an imperfect world according to a plan that was based on His promise that they were allowed a period of time when they were free to act for themselves without His constant intervention.

This time was given to His children to test whether or not they had the desire to become as He is. Perfect.

He promised His children that they would be free to choose between Good and Evil. He would not force their hand to choose one or the other.

This promise would also cause them to be subject to all the imperfections that mortality had to offer. Such as sickness, pain and death.

This "promise" is a little more complicated than I am sharing now, but I'm trying to make it as simple as possible.

So, if God is a perfected Being, could He go back on His promise and constantly intervene when any "bad thing" happened to His children, thus making Him a liar and voiding His perfection?

If He could void His own perfection, was He ever perfect to begin with?

If God is perfect, there are some things that He won't do in our world.

It is not because He does not want to or that He does not have the power to.

It is because He made us a promise and He will forever keep His promises.

That sounds pretty deliberate to me.

 

[McBell]

Abortion is the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

*yawn*
a·bor·tion
əˈbôrSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: abortion; plural noun: abortions

1. 1.
   the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.
   synonyms: termination, miscarriage
   "her first pregnancy resulted in a spontaneous abortion"
   • the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus by natural causes before it is able to survive independently.
   • BIOLOGY
     the arrest of the development of an organ, typically a seed or fruit.
2. 2.
   an object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out.

Care to try again?

 

[Prestor John]

That sounds pretty deliberate to me.

Explain how that is so.

 

[Prestor John]

*yawn*
a·bor·tion
əˈbôrSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: abortion; plural noun: abortions

1. 1.
   the deliberate termination of a human pregnancy, most often performed during the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.
   synonyms: termination, miscarriage
   "her first pregnancy resulted in a spontaneous abortion"
   • the expulsion of a fetus from the uterus by natural causes before it is able to survive independently.
   • BIOLOGY
     the arrest of the development of an organ, typically a seed or fruit.
2. 2.
   an object or undertaking regarded by the speaker as unpleasant or badly made or carried out.

Care to try again?

Sure.
mis·car·riage
ˈmisˌkerij,misˈkerij/
noun
noun: miscarriage; plural noun: miscarriages

1. 1.
   the expulsion of a fetus from the womb before it is able to survive independently, especially spontaneously or as the result of accident.
   "his wife had a miscarriage"
   synonyms: stillbirth, spontaneous abortion
   "she's had a miscarriage"

Notice how the word "deliberate" is not mentioned?

A "spontaneous abortion" is not a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Explain how that is so.

God deliberately wanted to look good, be pure of heart, and a keeper of promises so as a concession he deliberately made a decision and held back in allowing a fair number of childern to never see the light of day.

I'd say good for him too. Miscarrage (biological abortion) is a whole lot better than just killing off all those firstborn childern he's so famous for. On second thought, lets scratch that little blot off the written record. Nobody will notice. Besides, killing infants dosent qualify as abortion. Miscarriage is far more descrete and nobody will blame God for it anyways.

Less traumatic for all those unbelieving and undeserning heathen parents too, so his spontainious abortion clinic program was certainly a win win scenerio.

Sure.
mis·car·riage
ˈmisˌkerij,misˈkerij/
noun
noun: miscarriage; plural noun: miscarriages

1. 1.
   the expulsion of a fetus from the womb before it is able to survive independently, especially spontaneously or as the result of accident.
   "his wife had a miscarriage"
   synonyms: stillbirth, spontaneous abortion
   "she's had a miscarriage"

Notice how the word "deliberate" is not mentioned?

A "spontaneous abortion" is not a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

Wow! It's just like spontainious pregnancy cept in reverse.

 

[McBell]

Sure.
mis·car·riage
ˈmisˌkerij,misˈkerij/
noun
noun: miscarriage; plural noun: miscarriages

1. 1.
   the expulsion of a fetus from the womb before it is able to survive independently, especially spontaneously or as the result of accident.
   "his wife had a miscarriage"
   synonyms: stillbirth, spontaneous abortion
   "she's had a miscarriage"

Notice how the word "deliberate" is not mentioned?

A "spontaneous abortion" is not a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy.

I did in fact notice that the definition I highlighted in my post does not have the word "deliberate" in it.

I also notice that you seem to have not noticed that particular fact and thus made a redundant post that makes you look rather foolish.

Nice job.

 

[Prestor John]

I did in fact notice that the definition I highlighted in my post does not have the word "deliberate" in it.

I also notice that you seem to have not noticed that particular fact and thus made a redundant post that makes you look rather foolish.

Nice job.

I am always going to assume that you are either confused or that you don't know what you are talking about.

I don't know how showing you that a "spontaneous abortion" is another term for "miscarriage" is redundant.

Especially when I thought you had no idea what you were posting.

You asked for another definition so I supplied one. End of story.

 

[McBell]

I am always going to assume that you are either confused or that you don't know what you are talking about.

I don't know how showing you that a "spontaneous abortion" is another term for "miscarriage" is redundant.

Especially when I thought you had no idea what you were posting.

You asked for another definition so I supplied one. End of story.

Since you are not interested in honest discussion as is evidenced by your last three or four posts, I shall stop asking you such difficult questions.

 

[Prestor John]

Since you are not interested in honest discussion as is evidenced by your last three or four posts, I shall stop asking you such difficult questions.

Which posts are you referring to?

The one where I correctly explained that a miscarriage is not a deliberate termination of a human pregnancy?

The one where I supplied the definition of miscarriage as per your request for me to "Try again"?

Which posts, exactly, have I showed you that I am not interested in "honest discussion"?

To me, I feel that your use of "yawn" in your post to describe your feelings toward what I said was evidence that you are actually the one who is not interested in a "honest discussion."

Also, what question did you ask me that you consider "difficult"?

The only question I see you asking me is to "Try again" and I effectively did so while dismantling your point.

You keep alluding to things that don't exist, so why are you incapable of being honest?

 

[Darkstorn]

How can you compare a potential human life to toilet bowl bacteria?

I think a more apt comparison would be between a fully grown human and toilet bowl bacteria: They are at best equal. I think bacterial life is more valuable than any kind of "potential" life. And i don't think human life is more valuable than bacterial life.

 

[Prestor John]

I think a more apt comparison would be between a fully grown human and toilet bowl bacteria: They are at best equal.

Thank you sharing your opinion, but I can never agree with it.

I think bacterial life is more valuable than any kind of "potential" life.

In post #110 I clarified what I meant by "potential" human life.

Then I said, "As soon as the sperm and egg meld, becoming an individual cell of 46 chromosomes, that "ball of cells" is human."

And i don't think human life is more valuable than bacterial life.

Again, thank you for sharing your opinion, but I will never be able to agree with it.