E Pluribus Unum

[Father]

E Pluribus Unum. "Out of many, one". the Orignal idea of the thirteen colonies uniting in a union and becoming one nation. you will find the statement on the one dollar bill. that though the thirteen colonies held much difference and disagreement they could unite and find an Unum. one thing all could agree on.

I was having a Discussion with my Father last night around such an idea. he asked for the perspective of my generation what is one thing that all could agree and unite on. I could come up a point or two for each side to unite on but not something the entire country could. all aspects that bind the people of America together no longer exists. Religion, Philosophy, Culture, Race, even language itself varies a bit from one part of the country to the other. there is nothing either side can fully agree on. nothing that could happen to truly unite. we see this anytime a terrorist attack happens. during 9/11 both sides were able to unite in their hatred and revenge against Al Queda, but now we have terrorist attacks seemingly monthly and they do nothing but further divide.

with nothing. no tradition or ideal that can unite both sides what truly is the fate of the country? there is no middle ground. the thirteen colonies found something they could stand equally on enough so to kick out the British and form their own nation. that idea for them was Freedom. yet even now we lack even that to stand equal on. one side wishes to completely undermind and destroy it. Tradition? not that either any true American tradition has been bled out and overturn by outside entities. as a people? many fly flags of other countries above that of the American one. and state that their nation of origin is their first identifier. race? nope race war everywhere. there is no Unum to hold. no commonly held belief. even the ideals that the founding father's themselves hold are completely corrupted and gone.
and without that uniting feature. we are just many. divided. and divided we shall fall.

 

[Nakosis]

E Pluribus Unum. "Out of many, one". the Orignal idea of the thirteen colonies uniting in a union and becoming one nation. you will find the statement on the one dollar bill. that though the thirteen colonies held much difference and disagreement they could unit and find an Unum. one thing all could agree on.

Countries come and countries go, especially when there is nothing left to unite them.

Two reasons why Rome fell, IMO was immigration and corruption.

 

[Father]

Countries come and countries go, especially when there is nothing left to unite them.

Two reasons why Rome fell, IMO was immigration and corruption.

ironically the republic only lasted 500 years. we are almost 400 years old and about to fall apart. it seems republics are just crappy systems

 

[sun rise]

Yes, it's too bad that some on the right have abandoned American ideals and are trying to destroy the foundation America is built on.

One foundation is that very phrase "Out of many, one" which applies to the melting pot which is America as well as the states.

I'm literally an American because my parents were able to come here fleeing tyranny and poverty just like many are trying to do today. My parents were Jewish/Russian Americans just as others were Irish-American, Italian-American Mexican-American and so forth. That is America's tradition and America's strength.

My parents put up with discrimination because they were Jewish and immigrants and worked hard to make a place for themselves. I honor them and their "hyphen American" lives.

I see my parents, their lives and their struggles in immigrants today. Those who attack today's immigrants are, in essence, attacking my parents.

My parents were welcomed in Ellis Island many years ago under the shadow of the Statue of Liberty and that marvelous poem "The New Colossus" . My parents were "yearning to breathe free". They were "homeless" and "tempest-tost":

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[Father]

Yes, it's too bad that some on the right have abandoned American ideals and are trying to destroy the foundation America is built on.

One foundation is that very phrase "Out of many, one" which applies to the melting pot which is America as well as the states.

I'm literally an American because my parents were able to come here fleeing tyranny and poverty just like many are trying to do today. My parents were Jewish/Russian Americans just as others were Irish-American, Italian-American Mexican-American and so forth. That is America's tradition and America's strength.

My parents put up with discrimination because they were Jewish and immigrants and worked hard to make a place for themselves. I honor them and their "hyphen American" lives.

I see my parents, their lives and their struggles in immigrants today. Those who attack today's immigrants are, in essence, attacking my parents.

My parents were welcomed in Ellis Island many years ago under the shadow of the Statue of Liberty and that marvelous poem "The New Colossus" . My parents were "yearning to breathe free". They were "homeless" and "tempest-tost":

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

some of mine came from Ireland and when stepping off the boat handed guns and told to fight for their country. they fought in the civil war. granted every new group that is let in faces discrimination but that's a healthy part of the system. they assimilate and earn their keep. and they are considered as American as the next bloke. many of the immigrants being let in now don't. they feel no need to try and assimilate. a melting pot is a melting pot because each ingredient comes together to become one. what we have is a tv dinner tray of segregated people not wishing to come together. many of which cant who eats chocolate with coleslaw? the original system only worked because they were all of European descent. the European nations being similar enough to co-exist. and the small group that was not let's say the Chinese and Japanese. assimulated fine. those who have an issue with immigration don't have an issue with the founding principles as those worked. they take issue with the flawed system now and how it does not work. namely due to the fact the floodgates are constantly open never giving time for the water that does come through to evaporate.

 

[Stevicus]

E Pluribus Unum. "Out of many, one". the Orignal idea of the thirteen colonies uniting in a union and becoming one nation. you will find the statement on the one dollar bill. that though the thirteen colonies held much difference and disagreement they could unite and find an Unum. one thing all could agree on.

I was having a Discussion with my Father last night around such an idea. he asked for the perspective of my generation what is one thing that all could agree and unite on. I could come up a point or two for each side to unite on but not something the entire country could. all aspects that bind the people of America together no longer exists. Religion, Philosophy, Culture, Race, even language itself varies a bit from one part of the country to the other. there is nothing either side can fully agree on. nothing that could happen to truly unite. we see this anytime a terrorist attack happens. during 9/11 both sides were able to unite in their hatred and revenge against Al Queda, but now we have terrorist attacks seemingly monthly and they do nothing but further divide.

with nothing. no tradition or ideal that can unite both sides what truly is the fate of the country? there is no middle ground. the thirteen colonies found something they could stand equally on enough so to kick out the British and form their own nation. that idea for them was Freedom. yet even now we lack even that to stand equal on. one side wishes to completely undermind and destroy it. Tradition? not that either any true American tradition has been bled out and overturn by outside entities. as a people? many fly flags of other countries above that of the American one. and state that their nation of origin is their first identifier. race? nope race war everywhere. there is no Unum to hold. no commonly held belief. even the ideals that the founding father's themselves hold are completely corrupted and gone.
and without that uniting feature. we are just many. divided. and divided we shall fall.

I don't believe that the country was really all that "unified" in previous eras, as there were many points of division back then as well. The Colonies unified out of necessity, for mutual defense in the event some major power in Europe tried to take us over. But there was still "trouble in paradise" from the very beginning. The New England states almost broke off from the Union decades prior to the Civil War, and the Southern states also considered the question for secession long before they actually attempted it.

There's a brief dialogue from the movie Gettysburg which might be apropos. This is a conversation between Confederate General Longstreet and Col. Freemantle, an officer in the British Army and visiting America. He was more an observer than any kind of official representative.


Col. Arthur Freemantle: You call yourselves Americans, but you're really just transplanted Englishmen. Look at your names: Lee, Hood, Longstreet, Jackson, Stuart...

Lieutenant General James Longstreet: My people were Dutch...

Col. Arthur Freemantle: And the same for your adversaries: Meade, Hooker, Hancock, and - shall I say - Lincoln! The same God, same language, same culture and history, same songs, stories, legends, myths - different dreams. Different dreams. So very sad.

The point is, there's no automatic "unity" just because everyone might be the same or closely similar to each other. Even a national motto can't make it happen just like that.

In the aftermath of the Civil War, the country was still psychologically divided, although "unified" through the use of military force (not just in the South, but in the West as well), as well as political changes which brought more power to the Federal government. A great wave of immigration would also take place and continue until about WW1. After WW1, the US government pretty much shut down most immigration with the 1924 immigration act.

It was also a time when patriotism was very strong, as well as strong pressure on immigrants to assimilate to American society. Henry Ford was a big believer in assimilation. He had an English school for immigrants in which the graduation ceremony had them starting off dressed in the style of their nation of origin, and then they would enter the "melting pot" where their previous cultural identity was "boiled away," and they emerged from the other side wearing American style clothing and waving an American flag. (Ford English School)

By the 1960s, the foreign born population of the United States was its lowest level during the entire century (between 9.6% and 9.7% of the population), and yet, the country was very deeply divided over multiple issues. However, the immigration laws were changed which liberalized immigration laws and led to an increase in immigration. In 2013, the foreign born population in the US was over 40%.

 

[PureX]

The thing that should unify us all is our desire for liberty, and autonomy. But with a free society there comes responsibilities; like the necessity for equality of justice and opportunity, and for social tolerance. And as we have become more ignorant, and more selfish and self-centered, as a people, we have become unwilling and unable to recognize and fulfill these responsibilities to each other. We want it all our way, all the time, every time, or we want to blow it all up. And to hell with everyone else. This is who we have become thanks to a 75 year long onslaught of multi-media for-profit propaganda. The professional liars have gotten very good at it, because they tell us exactly the lies they know we most want to believe.

 

[Jumi]

Poisoning of the brain is the primary cause of the fall. I see the same in desire for intoxication and rejection of reality of modern day western countries. Not that many non-western countries are better.

Lead poisoning and the fall of Rome

 

[ChristineM]

Countries come and countries go, especially when there is nothing left to unite them.

Two reasons why Rome fell, IMO was immigration and corruption.

I thought it was lead poisoning, Visigoths and Christians that did for the western roman empire, the eastern empire continued until the 15 century.

And counting the forced immigration of slavery, its what Rome was built on.

We can agree though that corruption was rife throughout the lifespan of Rome and still thrives today.

 

[Nakosis]

I thought it was lead poisoning, Visigoths and Christians that did for the western roman empire, the eastern empire continued until the 15 century.

And counting the forced immigration of slavery, its what Rome was built on.

We can agree though that corruption was rife throughout the lifespan of Rome and still thrives today.

I was referring to the decline of the Roman Empire, not how it was built. As the Empire grew it was force to rely more and more on foreign mercenary armies.

http://www.historynet.com/romes-barbarian-mercenaries.htm

As far as the narrative of lead poisoning goes, you might find this interesting.

Lead Poisoning and Rome

 

[ChristineM]

I was referring to the decline of the Roman Empire, not how it was built. As the Empire grew it was force to rely more and more on foreign mercenary armies.

http://www.historynet.com/romes-barbarian-mercenaries.htm

As far as the narrative of lead poisoning goes, you might find this interesting.

Lead Poisoning and Rome

Or this

Lead poisoning and the fall of Rome

 

[Jumi]

I thought it was lead poisoning, Visigoths and Christians that did for the western roman empire, the eastern empire continued until the 15 century.

Depending on who you ask the Visigoths were Christian. Part of that was Visigoths that invaded Rome and attacked their cultural monuments and the Church in Rome was religious differences, they were strongly against belief in trinity.

 

[ChristineM]

Depending on who you ask the Visigoths were Christian. Part of that was Visigoths that invaded Rome and attacked their cultural monuments and the Church in Rome was religious differences, they were strongly against belief in trinity.

The visigoths at that time were arian they converted to christianity in the late 500s