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Dying to Self and Reborn as All

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Oct 16, 2021.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Alan watts said that when you die to yourself, you are reborn and become everything. When enligtenment is realized, does love come to all?





    is this the idea of thou art that? the idea of i will be what i will be? is this the idea of the resurrection?
    the idea of service to all as self?



    when self talks to the universe, is it it talking to infinite I? transforming the inner reaches of outer space?(Joseph Campbell)


     
  2. ben d

    ben d Being

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    The degree of difficulty of dying to the personal self is not mentioned. It requires extreme courage on the part of the aspirant, and persistent and extended practice of meditation whereby incrementally the self identification with the body transitions incrementally to the soul. It is a form of personal ego psychological death, continuous thoughts must give way to a quiet mind.
     
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  3. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    Dear ben d,

    It is hard to ignore that described in that manner, it sounds more like an all-consuming, self-obsessed practice.

    But I suppose that if it is taken up by someone who prior to it has lived deeply (actively partaken in being, experienced or empathised with many different human predicaments, witnessed much in way of both joy and suffering, etc), it may eventually help in releasing them for ego.

    Yet, one’s path to freedom from self need not always be an active quest towards it; much less must it feel like a dedicated mission to constantly remind oneself to work hard at.

    Freedom from self can emerge as a natural consequence of honestly having taken in the experience of being, during one’s life.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
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  4. ben d

    ben d Being

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    I agree that people are certainly not all at the same level, outstanding karma and all that. Or to put it another way, some souls are more along the path, and so the degree of difficulty is subjectively different.

    Concerning self-obsession as a requirement, given that the goal is to transcend the 'self', no, but definitely a deep desire to realize liberation is required. I think Jesus put it well, one cannot serve two masters without serving one second best. Also it was he who warned his disciples that the path is difficult, but easy is the wide one that leads to destruction.
     
  5. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    The trouble is that freedom from self is acquired by living life in servitude to others and one cannot do this if one is busy devoting oneself to a “deep desire” to release oneself from ego.

    Jesus’ talk of difficulty has more to do with the fact that he who ho lives by selflessness will frequently encounter mistrust, disapproval and hostility from (certain) others, because his choices will often be misunderstood. His challenge is to learn to accept this in a constructive manner and to rid himself of the human need to always be comprehended by others.

    To walk selflessly is often - in the eyes of another - to walk alone. Yet, there is no sense of loneliness within a selfless being.


    Humbly
    Hermit
     
  6. ben d

    ben d Being

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    First, As I understand it, when we talk about freedom from self, or dying to the self, it is a transition from self identifying with the body to self identification with the soul. It is a win win situation, the personal ego self (body self identification) gets to do much more creative work when it obeys the higher Self, and become a willing expression of the higher as opposed to being the be all and end all of who's running the show. Instead of thinking, the mind is in peace knowing it is one with the higher as its expression.

    So when Jesus said that the things he says and does do not originate with himself, but the Father, he is just saying he is an obedient servant of the Higher. That is the path!
     
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  7. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    its understood in the monomyth. its understood in the fool's journey.

    its understood when baptized in the name at exodus 3:14 and self doesn't take the name in vain.
     
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  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    when self is focused on liberating self, self fails. the focus is on self. this is why those who claimed to do service in the name, will not be recognized. the glorification of god in the body is to love other as self.

    altruism is the only way to liberation.

    if self takes up service to all as self to reach liberation, then self is still focused on self


    it is the alleviating of another's suffering that self finds happiness, liberation.


    matthew 11:29-30
     
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