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Dvija and Born Again

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Any similarity between the Hindu Dvija idea and the born again from christianity?

    John 3:3-6.
    3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
    4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

    or

    Revelation 20:6
    Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
     
  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Two quite different concepts from two very different paradigms, so I see no similarity.
     
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  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    How so are the concepts different? i can see the actions being different in how it's celebrated but honestly I can see much of a difference in the concept. isn't an idea somewhat like the jain parable of the elephant?

    both are speaking about birth of the flesh in contrast to birth of the spirit.

    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

    Matthew 8:22
    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
     
  4. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Both are stating the same basic idea from very different religious perspectives and theologies. The common element is that someone is born twice (or again); the first birth is physical and the second birth is religious or spiritual.
     
  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    In Christianity it is fairly common, I believe, although I know next to nothing about Christianity. In Hinduism it marks a rite of passage for the Brahmin caste only. As far as I know all Christians are eligible to be born again, whereas in Hinduism it's only the Brahmin caste who are eligible.

    In Christianity it's 'optional' I think, some sort of awakening the to the spirit of Jesus. (Like I said, I know nothing about Christianity, I'm probably off. and am just going by what acquaintances have told me. Certainly Christ seems to be key.) In Hinduism, there is no Christ, and it's pretty well compulsory for all those born into the Brahmin caste. I'm personally not eligible, and since I'm not Brahmin, also know very little about it, as it's not applicable to me.

    In general, but not always, I often find comparative studies to distort things when looking for similarities.
     
  6. Satyamavejayanti

    Satyamavejayanti Well-Known Member

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    Namaste,

    From reading the Wiki on Dvija and the verses of the Bible below, it is clear that the only similarity is the word "re Born", but the intent, purpose, reason and application is not the same at all.

    Dvija are not the only ones who will enter Heaven, heaven actually is not even the purpose of becoming Dvija, as the Wiki article states

    "The second 'birth' occurs when one takes up fulfilling a role in society, at the time of Upanayana initiation ceremony. For example, a Brahmin is initiated into school to study and pursue Brahmopadesha (preach, counsel) in the matter of the nature of Brahman, the ultimate reality). Traditionally, a Kshatraiya would start learning the use of arms, while a Vaishya would start a trade apprenticeship."

    Again the entire intent and purpose of the baptism is entry into the Kingdom of God, but Dvija is for initiation into Vedic study, martial arts, business and work.

    The Dvija is linked with Guru-Shishya Principal and does not play a factor in a persons relationship with any God, it is not only to become preists but is a initiation of a young person (some only limit it to Boys, which is not backed by many Shastras) to be recognised as a active participant in the duties of the Varna of that person.

    So only one word is similar, not the concept itself.
     
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