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Featured Duties of the Messiah (Primarily Aimed at Christians)

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    After a discussion on another thread I've decided to make this one. There's pretty much 0 chance of this not becoming a debate so this section it is in.

    I would like Christians to tell me how they know what to look for in the Messiah, what he is supposed to do and so on, using only the Tanakh ('OT').

    Go!
     
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  2. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    ...this should be good

    jesus.png
     
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  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    It should also be respectful.
     
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  4. 'mud

    'mud ~~ Life is Stuff ~~
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    Moses in the sand again, in agony !
     
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  5. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Respectful of what? People making demonstrably false claims about the Jewish version of Messiah by retrofitting Christian claims into the Original Testament?

    I won't be very good at that.
    Tom
     
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  6. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    I think it won't depend on exact translations but similarities that can be made spiritually. In other words, close enough for it to have been considered using words and feelings in general.

    Words are just representation of thought anyway. Thoughts exist in fluidity, while words exist in the physical (ink and paper)... Two different worlds.
     
  7. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Let's not be literalists, shall we? Lest we be fundamentalist now.

    ...There's a reason why we can't spill our entire mind from end to end in a book. It can't be done for humans, let alone God.
     
  8. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    This doesn't answer my asking at all.
     
  9. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Since it is directed to Christians then I can assume we aren't talking about the second coming.

    53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed? 2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    Is that what you are asking?

    Or are we including things like:

    Ps 41:9 Even my close friend in whom I trusted, Who ate my bread, Has lifted up his heel against me.

    Ken
     
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  10. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    No.

    How do you know what the Messiah should do assuming you have no Christian scriptures.
     
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  11. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Whatever makes you think I'm a literalist?

    I'm just pointing out that many Christians insist that their poor translation of the Original Testament is the Word of God. That's how they support their belief that Jesus is Christ, the Messiah. When clearly He is nothing like the messiah described in the bible.

    The True Messiah had one job. Jesus didn't come anywhere close to doing it. Jesus is not the messiah, according to the Original Testament. So pagans redefined Messiah to suit their religious purposes, and started retranslating the Jewish Scripture to suit themselves.

    And over the course of centuries Jewish people got everything from the Diaspora to Lutherans to the Holocaust. But still, "They tried to kill us! They failed! Let's eat!"
    Tom
     
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  12. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Ok... I'm not quite understanding (honestly). You mean what should he be doing today? Or when He comes back?
     
  13. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    What makes the Messiah? How do you know he is the Messiah? For what are you looking, according to the Tanakh? Before your man, people expected a messiah; what were they expecting of him and from where did they derive their expectations?
     
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  14. Cooky

    Cooky Veteran Member

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    Well, if you're going to go with a strict, and literal translation of the Tanakh, as a source for what the Messiah should be, then I think that represents literalism.
     
  15. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Since I'm not a Christian, my hopefully clarifying point is that you're asking for scriptural signs and proofs, an intellectual question and not a question of the heart.
     
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  16. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    Yes.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I could easily answer that from a Baha'i perspective but right now I am not touching it with a ten foot pole. :rolleyes:

    Let the Christians answer it, that should be interesting.... Given Jesus did not fulfill any of the Messianic Age prophecies, the only hope for that is if Jesus returns. ;)
     
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  18. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    Ok... Hopefully I got it.

    I would start with:

    Micah 5:2 "But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clan sof Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity."

    to establish where he was to be born.

    Does that match what you are asking?
     
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  19. Rival

    Rival Iiu em hotep.
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    Yes, this is the kind of thing I'm looking for.

    Basically, I'm asking you to justify your Christian beliefs about the Messiah using the Tanakh only.
     
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  20. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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