Drugs and the Left Hand Path

[1137]

What is your opinion, as a walker of the Left Hand Path, on taking drugs. I do not mean Tylenol for an aching back or a Valium or sleeping pill, I mean marijuana, alcohol, prescription abuse, psychedelic mushrooms, LSD, etc. I am curious to know because I could see different lines of thought. First off, we are all pro individuality here and you can do what you want to your body. On top of that, I am reminded of an ex-former's idea of breaking social norms, and doing such things certainly fits in with that.

However, on the other side, the Self is the most important thing. Should we be treating it in such ways? Religions of the RHP themselves are drugs of sorts we have shunned for many of the same reasons as one who shuns doing these drugs. The body might as well be the only holy place in existence, at least in my opinion.

So, I think I would lean to being anti-personal drug use (meaning myself personally doing it, others may do as they please). I would go into greater detail but I must prepare for work.

 

[Iti oj]

I think cultural taking drugs like lsd, mushrooms, peyote, dmt should be experience at least once in life.

Weed imo is a better alternative then alchol.

 

[Iti oj]

Drugs are something that can be used but more often then not they use you.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

They can be useful as tools, can be fun as recreation, but can leave you mentally impure if you abuse them. If you don't care about mental purity, then I'd say no problem at all.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I have nothing against recreational drug use, aside from that it makes me feel like crap.

 

[Orias]

Well it all depends on what you want to do with your life.

Everyone does drugs, spiritual orientation doesn't really matter. If you have a clue, or a sense of direction then perhaps they could help develop some intuition, mentality, killer instinct, etc etc.

If you have no idea where you want to go with your life, I wouldn't suggest doing any of these things.

 

[1137]

I can see using drugs to kick start things mentally, but there should be a point where they are left behind.

 

[Orias]

I can see using drugs to kick start things mentally, but there should be a point where they are left behind.

Precisely.

Repetitive use can lead to undesirable results.

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm not a hater of people doing drugs, but I have reasons why I am not involved. I spend a great deal of my time already exploring the extremes of consciousness, mental faculties, and reality as we know it. If for one second there may be the possibility that some chemical influenced one result or perception of it then everything I do is for naught. I wouldn't be able to trust what I've learned because I wouldn't be able to trust my own perceptions.

Psychoactive drugs interfere with natural levels of serotonin in your body and reduce your ability to sleep, perform cognitive tasks, memory, mood, and even your diurnal body rhythm. After repeated use you will likely not be able to notice the missing function, nor any lasting after-effect since your entire perceptions may remain altered. Some of these stay in your system for weeks after the initial dose and are still having some sort of influence on your body even if they have largely worn off. I disagree with the idea that repeated use is required -- I think any use is equally damaging. All it takes is one chink in the cognitive armour.. so to speak..

 

[apophenia]

I watched a youtube of Anton Lavey just a few days ago, and I would say 100% he was off his face on marijuana. It's not hard to pick.

This one - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fw6qPVZ5lmE

If he's not stoned then I must be tripping.

Crowley - drugs. Gurdjieff - drugs.

List your favorite musicians - drugs.
................... writers - drugs.
.....................painters - drugs.

This is not an issue which requires or can benefit from any debate IMO. Leave this kind of hand-wringing to the buddhists and hindus and christians.

LHP and drugs 'drugs are bad m'kay ?'.. .are you kidding ?

Do I need to bother explaining the flying ointments with dildo applicators which originally led to the image of witches on broomsticks ?

 

[Orias]

With all this being said I would say that marijuana could be the proverbial "fruit of knowledge of good and evil". Its effects are subjective from person to person and hard to describe, though in totality the consequences and effects it has can be seen in day to day people. Which in consideration can be difficult to apply to those such as those ilk to the LHP or RHP whose quest primarily consist of absorbing knowledge.

 

[apophenia]

However, on the other side, the Self is the most important thing. Should we be treating it in such ways?

I'll be kind and let you shred this for yourself.

 

[apophenia]

Precisely.

Repetitive use of [Insert any descriptor here] can lead to undesirable results.

Any habituation is necessarily an absence of presence and will.

Rhinotillexomania for example. A scourge.

 

[Mindmaster]

This is not an issue which requires or can benefit from any debate IMO. Leave this kind of hand-wringing to the buddhists and hindus and christians.

LHP and drugs 'drugs are bad m'kay ?'.. .are you kidding ?

Do I need to bother explaining the flying ointments with dildo applicators which originally led to the image of witches on broomsticks ?

The morality or social acceptance are irrelevant to me, but even more irrelevant is some illusion that you have to do drugs to be creative or interesting. It's the classic "makes you cooler" cop out that every freaking junkie tells themselves. Any illusion you're better on them is just that, but that being said some people have personalities that don't allow them to unwind. It's probably worse for their health not to roll a doobie once in awhile. I really don't care the issue either way... I have lots of friends that do what they do, but to say it doesn't effect them is just blindness -- I've known some of them for twenty years and see marked differences in them physically and mentally from friends whom don't do any drugs at all.

Personally, for me at least... Alcohol is much more powerful than marijuana which I seem virtually immune to other than to make me hungry.

 

[apophenia]

The morality or social acceptance are irrelevant to me, but even more irrelevant is some illusion that you have to do drugs to be creative or interesting. It's the classic "makes you cooler" cop out that every freaking junkie tells themselves. Any illusion you're better on them is just that, but that being said some people have personalities that don't allow them to unwind. It's probably worse for their health not to roll a doobie once in awhile. I really don't care the issue either way... I have lots of friends that do what they do, but to say it doesn't effect them is just blindness -- I've known some of them for twenty years and see marked differences in them physically and mentally from friends whom don't do any drugs at all.

Personally, for me at least... Alcohol is much more powerful than marijuana which I seem virtually immune to other than to make me hungry.

"even more irrelevant is some illusion that you have to do drugs to be creative or interesting. " No-one has suggested that you do.

Where did that come from ? The fact of life is that a huge percentage of innovative thinkers and artists have used drugs. Does this mean they are obligatory ? Of course not. But if you remove all the philosophers,writers, musicians and technological innovators who used drugs from say, the last 100 years of human history, a whole lot of our culture (and some of the best of it) would disappear.

And why the reference to "every freaking junkie" ? That is a pretty lame generalisation, being used as a hysterical general slander IMO.

"Any illusion you're better on them is just that" is simply not true. Rule 6 prevents detail, but performance enhancers are not called that for no reason. I suppose you think that Olympic athletes use drugs because they are "freaking junkies", and not because they get real enhancements ?

And it's not just sport. There is no way that an uncountable number of superb musical achievements (for example) would have emerged without psychedelia. The musicians may well have been able to play (technically) very well without them, but it seems you just don't realise (or don't want to acknowledge) the kind of impact that psychedelia has on the creative process.

Oh, and btw, alcohol is a drug.

I should say that people who drink alcohol are all basically the same as homeless winos, it's just a matter of time ..., just to make you aware of the inaccuracy and personal bias of your earlier generalisation about 'junkies'.

 

[crossfire]

Hey, if you want to give yourself yet another hunger that can't be satisfied, what the heck? You might be successful in using this as a tool to find creative ways to satiate a different unsatiated hunger, but this by no means a sure thing. I've seen enough people consume their very essence through the hunger created by drugs, leaving them as mere shades of their former selves. You are not always the only one affected, either--drug use can also create "hunger" in your loved ones who miss your former self.

 

[Me Myself]

I'm not a hater of people doing drugs, but I have reasons why I am not involved. I spend a great deal of my time already exploring the extremes of consciousness, mental faculties, and reality as we know it. If for one second there may be the possibility that some chemical influenced one result or perception of it then everything I do is for naught. I wouldn't be able to trust what I've learned because I wouldn't be able to trust my own perceptions.

Psychoactive drugs interfere with natural levels of serotonin in your body and reduce your ability to sleep, perform cognitive tasks, memory, mood, and even your diurnal body rhythm. After repeated use you will likely not be able to notice the missing function, nor any lasting after-effect since your entire perceptions may remain altered. Some of these stay in your system for weeks after the initial dose and are still having some sort of influence on your body even if they have largely worn off. I disagree with the idea that repeated use is required -- I think any use is equally damaging. All it takes is one chink in the cognitive armour.. so to speak..

I am honestly curious:

Whats our position on coffee, tea , chocolate and sugar?

 

[maxfreakout]

What this issue ultimately comes down to is that certain drugs allow people to have easy access to the psychedelic altered state of consciousness, without those drugs it is practically impossible to experience the psychedelic state. The other (non psychedelic) drugs are irrelevant to religion. The issue then becomes about the role of psychedelic experiencing to religious beliefs.

The only real distinction between religious people is not whether they are left hand path or right hand path, jew or christian, muslim or sikh etc etc, but rather it is whether a person interprets religion as originating from and referring back to the psychedelic experience, or not.

You either believe that psychedelic experiencing has nothing to do with religion, or else you believe that religion originates from and refers back to psychedelic experiencing. This forum seems to be populated almost entirely with people who hold the former belief, there is close to zero awareness of the link between psychedelic experiencing (which is the same as intense mystical experiencing) and religion.

For a psychedelic religionist, every religious story is interpreted as an allegorical description of a psychedelic experience, - for example when a person takes a psychedelic drug, they can see for themselves what it means to "walk on water" like Jesus; the story of Jesus walking on water is readily recognizable as a reference to a very common, standard feature of the psychedelic experience (the walls and floors take on a fluid appearance)

 

[crossfire]

“Was and will make me ill,
I take a gram and only am." ​

~ Aldous Huxley, Brave New World, regarding soma​

 

[1137]

Yes, let's base our religious beliefs on our brain irrationaly tripping out.