Drugs and idolatry

[gseeker]

What are your view on drug usage by Christians includind the use of caffeine which alters the brain in the same way as cocaine and heroin and is highly addictive. Also, the modern church has changed the definition of the word idolatry, what do you believe idolatry is?

 

[apophenia]

Caffeine alters the brain, yes, but in the same way as cocaine and heroin ? No. Although Perhaps you just mean that like any drug it alters the brain.

There are so many 'drugs' in ordinary food I could write about it all day. So saying 'no' to drugs means you would literally starve probably. For instance, bananas and milk contain tryptophan. This is an amino which affects the brain (sedative, even mildly psychedelic at a sufficient dose). It is the 'root' of all tryptamine psychedelics (like magic mushrooms). If you drink diet coke, it has no caffeine, but it contains phenylalinine. Also a naturally occurring amino, and a stimulant. It is the 'root' of all phenethylamine drugs (ecstasy, methamphetamine ...).

Herbs, spices - all contain mind altering compounds (whether you call them drugs, compounds, alkaloids, chemicals, medicine - all depends on the 'spin' you want to put on it).

So you can't NOT take drugs.

Some are way stronger than others in their mental and physical effects, so it comes down to education and discrimination.

 

[ChristineES]

I think about how the religious leaders of Jesus' time called Him a drunkard.

 

[gseeker]

Good answer which just shows that some of the Bible cannot apply to a modern lifestyle. However caffeine does affect the brain in the same way heroin and cocaine does just to a much lesser extent. So other than living in the wilderness and living off the land, avoiding bananas of course, the really isnt a way to avoid drug use.That gives me a great excuse to keep smoking, now if only they would legalize weed! Lol

 

[gseeker]

I think about how the religious leaders of Jesus' time called Him a drunkard.

Of course that goes back to my question earlier about legalism in the modern church. Everything I've heard lately from the church is that it is a sin to even sip a beer.

 

[ChristineES]

Of course that goes back to my question earlier about legalism in the modern church. Everything I've heard lately from the church is that it is a sin to even sip a beer.

They are calling Jesus, whom they (and I) serve, a sinner- I wonder if they realize that.

 

[apophenia]

No, I wouldn't say it gives you a great excuse to keep smoking weed. It means what I said - you have to get educated and use discrimination.

ANY smoking will destroy lung tissue. Lungs were not designed to be smoke and oil filters.

If you smoke it with tobacco, it is way damaging. 75% of all deaths caused by drugs are caused by tobacco (and that's just the DEATHS, not all the other damage). Not at all comparable to eating a banana, which isn't damaging at all.

If you are going to use weed, the only relatively healthy way is to cook it (which works better anyway). Even then, you need to educate yourself about what it is doing to you (and how to cook it).

 

[gseeker]

Oh you know they claim that you couldn't drink the water back then that it was unclean and that the wine had a very small amount of actual alcohol in it. The Bible does speak against drunkenness though but where do you draw the line between a sip of beer and drunkenness?

 

[ChristineES]

Oh you know they claim that you couldn't drink the water back then that it was unclean and that the wine had a very small amount of actual alcohol in it. The Bible does speak against drunkenness though but where do you draw the line between a sip of beer and drunkenness?

There is a difference between drinking a glass or two of wine with dinner and getting drunk. It's all about the old idea of "moderation". I don't drink at all, but it's not because I think drinking in moderation is a sin, but for a far different reason (having to do with members of my family having cirrhosis of the liver)

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Jesus never you can't do drugs, as far as I know.

 

[gseeker]

Actually I was talking about smoking tobacco not weed. Tobacco related death aren't just tobacco deaths they also have related issues. I've known way more people who have smoked their entire lives with no Heath issues later in life than I've known people who have had serious health complications from smoking. Excuse me if I don't accept the hype.

 

[apophenia]

The Bible does speak against drunkenness though but where do you draw the line between a sip of beer and drunkenness?

That's the point.

That, and understanding the substance in question. For example, the indigenous people of South America have for centuries chewed coca leaf, the source of cocaine. It was never a problem to them - it acted as a mild stimulant and tonic. This is because there is a limit to the amount of leaves you can chew in a day. If you chew all day (and many did/do) the maximum amount of cocaine you would ingest is about 100mg spread across a whole day.

This is entirely different to having 100 mg or more of powder every hour. And even that is entirely different to smoking crack (the free base cocaine), which is an express train to hell.

Similarly, the hill tribes of Thailand smoke bongs of opium every day. That is, once again, very different from using heroine, which is way stronger.

Another example - Ritalin is a stimulant with similarities to caffeine and cocaine. It is possible to overdo it, but then compare that to methamphetamine. Both can be used to treat ADHD, both are stimulants. But meth causes dopamine levels in the brain to rise by up to 600%. This makes it not only dangerously addictive, but causes changes in brain tissue as the body attempts to normalise itself. And it does drive many people into psychotic states.

So, as I said - education and discrimination. Making a fundamental error can be very costly.

 

[ChristineES]

Jesus never [said] you can't do drugs, as far as I know.

(I assume that you meant to add "said" to that quote (I added it)). And it's true- Jesus never said a lot of things that people make out to be a sin- like Rock music and other things.

 

[gseeker]

Jesus never you can't do drugs, as far as I know.

The word sorcery in the new testament is from the root Greek word pharmakia which is drug abuse, just not sure if it means only for religious reasons or not.

 

[apophenia]

Actually I was talking about smoking tobacco not weed. Tobacco related death aren't just tobacco deaths they also have related issues. I've known way more people who have smoked their entire lives with no Heath issues later in life than I've known people who have had serious health complications from smoking. Excuse me if I don't accept the hype.

How much later in life ? Tobacco kills half of its users. Possibly quite late in life, but horribly. Check out the real medical facts. Emphysaema is absolutely unavoidable - it is only a question of degree. I know all this because I smoked joints with tobacco for decades, and it is without a doubt the stupidest and most regrettable thing I ever did.

If you smoke regularly, there is a 1 in 4 chance of major vision impairment by age 64, and a 1 in 2 chance of being classified as 'technically blind' by 72 due to macular degeneration.

It also ruins health and fitness well before that ( have you ever seen a good sportsman who smokes ?)

 

[apophenia]

On the subject of Jesus and drugs, read "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" by John Allegro. The Essene people used magic mushrooms as a sacrament. This could explain why christianity is a bit psychotic

 

[waitasec]

What are your view on drug usage by Christians includind the use of caffeine which alters the brain in the same way as cocaine and heroin and is highly addictive. Also, the modern church has changed the definition of the word idolatry, what do you believe idolatry is?

one wonders what the difference between that and going under the knife?
surgery not only alters the body, but it alters the balance of life...wouldn't you say? all have sinned and therefore if a christian gets sick, are they not to heed to their saviors call to come home. why delay the experience one is so looking forward to?



:sarcastic