Drug and alcohol addiction

[RestlessSoul]

Being difficult doesn't mean it is not possible.

The way is simple. The difficulty comes from that it is not easy to reject something that one thinks is extremely desirable. Way to get rid of a such thing is to first understand why one desires the thing and after that how to be without it, if it is not a good thing. I think it essentially comes to what person really wants. I believe alcoholic for example could want to get rid of it, but he wants still more the alcohol, or what he gets from the alcohol than to be without it. In that case, I think crucial thing is to understand, what is the matter one gets from alcohol. And then learn to have it without alcohol, if it is not a bad thing.

There is some truth in this. There is a type of alcoholic of whom it is sometimes said, "He wants to want to stop." In other words, he wants all the chaos and misery his addiction is causing to stop happening, but he doesn't want this as badly as his brain and body want another drink. It's a pretty awful place to be in, when you know the damage you are doing to yourself and those around you, but the mental obsession and physical craving is more powerful than will or reason.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What is the right answer to change our problem? Why do we have it? We have all these vivacious religions here, over-friendly Jewish Temples friendly churches, and Mosques, and yet we as Americans can´t find a cure with all our religions here? It would seem that we could cure our problems, but we are in a crisis, the medical field, says our opiate and meth addictions are a national Crisis!

Why would the presence of religions be any kind of a factor here?
I fail to see the relevancy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Being difficult doesn't mean it is not possible.

The way is simple. The difficulty comes from that it is not easy to reject something that one thinks is extremely desirable. Way to get rid of a such thing is to first understand why one desires the thing and after that how to be without it, if it is not a good thing. I think it essentially comes to what person really wants. I believe alcoholic for example could want to get rid of it, but he wants still more the alcohol, or what he gets from the alcohol than to be without it. In that case, I think crucial thing is to understand, what is the matter one gets from alcohol. And then learn to have it without alcohol, if it is not a bad thing.

Well, in the case of alcoholism, one's body becomes physically dependent on the drug, so that to just stop taking the drug cold turkey, can cause bodily harm and even potential death to the addict. A person withdrawing from alcohol can have life-threatening seizures and delirium tremens which can cause heart attack, stroke and also seizures. Medical intervention is often necessary for detox, in these people.
So in the case of alcoholism, a person cannot literally, just reason him/herself out of it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am not saying anyone enjoys being an addict. I think drug addict enjoys the drug, or the feeling the drug gives.

People enjoy pleasurable things, yes.

Initially people take these drugs for the pleasure of it. But once addicted, they are taking the drug to maintain to level of drug needed in their system to avoid withdrawal symptoms. That's actually what addicted tobacco smokers are doing as well.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There is some truth in this. There is a type of alcoholic of whom it is sometimes said, "He wants to want to stop." In other words, he wants all the chaos and misery his addiction is causing to stop happening, but he doesn't want this as badly as his brain and body want another drink. It's a pretty awful place to be in, when you know the damage you are doing to yourself and those around you, but the mental obsession and physical craving is more powerful than will or reason.

I watched my dad deal with this for years. Addicts don't want to be addicted.

 

[osgart]

I watched my dad deal with this for years. Addicts don't want to be addicted.

Are you saying they can't stop no matter how bad they want to?

Because my niece gets lectured quite often, and says that she's scared to take a drink. Yet she runs for it first opportunity she gets.

What actually stops the addiction do you think?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Are you saying they can't stop no matter how bad they want to?

Of course not. I'm saying it's not always just a simple matter of 'reasoning" one's way out of it. There is much more going on there.

Because my niece gets lectured quite often, and says that she's scared to take a drink. Yet she runs for it first opportunity she gets.

What actually stops the addiction do you think?

You have to re-wire your brain. Which can take some time. And even then, many addicts still experience cravings in response to certain triggers on some level, for the rest of their lives. That's why they call them "recovering addicts." And it's one of the reasons why relapse rates are so high for addiction.

 

[Curious George]

Are you saying they can't stop no matter how bad they want to?

Because my niece gets lectured quite often, and says that she's scared to take a drink. Yet she runs for it first opportunity she gets.

What actually stops the addiction do you think?

It is a long process. First a person needs to detox. Many will often need assistance for this. For some substances there is chemical assistance as well. Next a person needs to build their knowledge of their addiction and how they are impacted by it. A person will likely need to build up some time being sober while avoiding things that trigger their addiction. Then the person will likely need to work on building coping mechanisms to deal with triggers. The person should also have built a plan for relapse because relapse is often a part of recovery.

Alcohol is rough, because it is ubiquitous. Our culture pushes alcohol: long day at work, you need a drink; celebrate with your friends, you need a drink; major tragedy, you need a drink etc. separating yourself from alcohol is pretty hard and you can watch people seemingly use alcohol with their lives not impacted. If you don’t join in you are somehow a party pooper or unsociable, not willing or allowed to join the “fun.” All of this happens while a person’s mind is looking for any excuse to drink.

If you would like to help your niece, connect her with qualified drug and alcohol counselors, help her build her support network, and try to engage her with activities where she can stay away from alcohol.

 

[Riders]

Why would the presence of religions be any kind of a factor here?
I fail to see the relevancy.

Addicts have a spiritual problem. I try to fill my emptiness need for God with food.Drug addicts fill their desir e for God with drugs. That's why 1w st ed p recove r y programs are spiritual.

 

[1213]

Initially people take these drugs for the pleasure of it. But once addicted, they are taking the drug to maintain to level of drug needed in their system to avoid withdrawal symptoms. That's actually what addicted tobacco smokers are doing as well.

I can agree that there can be withdrawal symptoms. And it probably can be painful for some time. However, it doesn't make it impossible to get rid of the stuff and the symptoms will go away eventually. And I believe the symptoms can be eased by right thinking.

 

[1213]

Well, in the case of alcoholism, one's body becomes physically dependent on the drug, so that to just stop taking the drug cold turkey, can cause bodily harm and even potential death to the addict. A person withdrawing from alcohol can have life-threatening seizures and delirium tremens which can cause heart attack, stroke and also seizures. Medical intervention is often necessary for detox, in these people.
So in the case of alcoholism, a person cannot literally, just reason him/herself out of it.

Sorry, I believe it is still possible, even if in some case it would be physically difficult. But, it requires right reasoning. If you do it in bad case against person's will, it can cause problems.

 

[1213]

Nope. You are entirely ignoring the effects of physical and psychological dependence, both of which operate below the radar of a person's reason.

Sorry, I believe it is firstly mental issue that can be reasoned. However, it is not necessary a simple issue and not the exactly the same in all cases. I believe anyone with an addiction can get rid of it with reasoning. But, I understand it is just my belief and I can't prove it. However, I hope anyone with an addiction understands it is not hopeless situation, there is a way out, if person really wants so. In my opinion the hopeless view is a disservice for any addicted person.

 

[Colt]

What is the right answer to change our problem? Why do we have it? We have all these vivacious religions here, over-friendly Jewish Temples friendly churches, and Mosques, and yet we as Americans can´t find a cure with all our religions here? It would seem that we could cure our problems, but we are in a crisis, the medical field, says our opiate and meth addictions are a national Crisis!

Drinking and drugging is the solution for the addict! Thats the problem! The solution starts out to be a powerful remedy which slowly becomes a major problem on its own.

If the addict is able to stop using for any period of time the real problem emerges, he or she is generally uncomfortable in reality. The addict has an allergic relation to being clean and sober, a spiritual malady.


"When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically."
AA, How it Works pg. 64

 

[PureX]

Drinking and drugging is the solution for the addict! Thats the problem! The solution starts out to be a powerful remedy which slowly becomes a major problem on its own.

If the addict is able to stop using for any period of time the real problem emerges, he or she is generally uncomfortable in reality. The addict has an allergic relation to being clean and sober, a spiritual malady.


"When the spiritual malady is overcome, we straighten out mentally and physically."
AA, How it Works pg. 64

Yes.

So why are so many people feeling "allergic to reality" these days?

That's a very complicated answer. Some of it is genetic. Some of it is sociological. Some of it is economic. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is unknown. And mostly none of it is being addressed.

Add to that the amoral greed of capitalist commerce and corporations willing to sell very powerfully addicting drugs to anyone they can for a profit, and we get an epidemic of deadly drug addiction on top of a long accepted problem of slcohol addiction. And let's not forget all the corporate sponsored gambling in casinos and stocks and commodities markets and the addictions fueled by all of that.

There's big money to be made from addiction and money rules all our decisions as a society and a culture. So of course addiction is on the increase. How could it be otherwise?

 

[Colt]

Yes.

So why are so many people feeling "allergic to reality" these days?

That's a very complicated answer. Some of it is genetic. Some of it is sociological. Some of it is economic. Some of it is cultural. Some of it is unknown. And mostly none of it is being addressed.

Add to that the amoral greed of capitalist commerce and corporations willing to sell very powerfully addicting drugs to anyone they can for a profit, and we get an epidemic of deadly drug addiction on top of a long accepted problem of slcohol addiction. And let's not forget all the corporate sponsored gambling in casinos and stocks and commodities markets and the addictions fueled by all of that.

There's big money to be made from addiction and money rules all our decisions as a society and a culture. So of course addiction is on the increase. How could it be otherwise?

Generally speaking, the human condition is one of weakness. A percentage of the population has always been susceptible to addictive behavior, in every age and in every culture. However, some cultures have very high percentages of addiction. The Native American population has a terribly high percentage of addicts 20-30%.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I can agree that there can be withdrawal symptoms.

Cool, because there are. Very dangerous ones.

And it probably can be painful for some time. However, it doesn't make it impossible to get rid of the stuff and the symptoms will go away eventually. And I believe the symptoms can be eased by right thinking.

Please read my post on alcoholism. People need medical interventions for such things. Interventions that too many people do not have access to.

Of course nobody is saying it's impossible to get off drugs one is addicted to. I'm just saying there's much more to it than just "reasoning" or will -powering your way out of addiction, as some seem to think.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry, I believe it is still possible, even if in some case it would be physically difficult. But, it requires right reasoning. If you do it in bad case against person's will, it can cause problems.

Have I ever said anywhere that it's impossible? Why do you have that in your head?

You can't just "reason" your way out of alcohol dependence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry, I believe it is firstly mental issue that can be reasoned. However, it is not necessary a simple issue and not the exactly the same in all cases.

Why and how do you think you can reason your way out of mental health issues? Can I just reason that I don't want to be clinically depressed anymore? Of course not. Not anymore than I can reason my way out of physical and psychological chemical dependence.

I believe anyone with an addiction can get rid of it with reasoning. But, I understand it is just my belief and I can't prove it. However,

Sorry but anyone who understands addiction knows that your beliefs on the subject are inaccurate.

I hope anyone with an addiction understands it is not hopeless situation, there is a way out, if person really wants so. In my opinion the hopeless view is a disservice for any addicted person.

Who said anything about hopeless or impossible? We're just saying that your view is far to simplistic and ignorant of the subject matter.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

For the soul, reality is initially associated with paradise, but when the soul loses faith in paradise, it prioritizes pain relief. When the world, including the social world, becomes associated with pain in the general sense (struggle, anxiety, judgment, etc), then disassociation and escapism follow. Truth and reality become associated with the pain relief of escaping the world.

However, no matter what, we are not allowed to completely divorce ourselves from the world. There is a part that maintains its grasp of the world. It gives a reality check to the false truth and false reality of pain-relief-escapism. This is usually when the addict is open to change.

At this point, the addict has the opportunity to get back on the path and reconcile their relationship with the world. Faith in paradise must be re-accessed and paradise must be re-associated with the world. This hope is the only antidote to the general pain of the world.

This is what it means to save the world for the soul. It’s the idea that the world, including the social world, is capable of and has the potential to support paradise. Resurrecting hope for the world in this way is step 1 in overcoming addiction. Anyone who has overcome addiction has done this to some degree, whether intentional or not.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Faith in paradise must be re-accessed and paradise must be re-associated with the world. This hope is the only antidote to the general pain of the world.

The two main tools used for this are memory and imagination. Access memories, especially childhood memories, of when the world and paradise overlapped and then imagine that state for your world (subjective) in the future. If the world has supported paradise even for a short time in the past, then it has the potential to support more of it in the future. The addict should hold this vision in order to build the resilience needed for tests of faith.