Yup.
That's why careful usage is key.
Abstaining rarely works, afaik. AA would have a better success rate if it did.
Edit: Harm Reduction Principles | National Harm Reduction Coalition
Harm Reduction seems the best.
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Drinking and smoking?
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
Yup.
That's why careful usage is key.
Abstaining rarely works, afaik. AA would have a better success rate if it did.
Edit: Harm Reduction Principles | National Harm Reduction Coalition
Harm Reduction seems the best.
Out of all my problems with Hillsong Church, this is probably the least of them.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Two issues wtih drinking and smoking
1 - it's self indulgence, pleasure seeking
2 - it's a way of connecting to peers and conforming to the world.
Having said that - drinking in moderation is fine. The only REAL issue, as Paul put it, is that your
habit in moderation could cause someone to adopt the same habit in excess.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
I figure if it's not unbiblical, does it matter? Sometimes churches have strange rules. One of the Baptist churches I went to had "no consuming of alcoholic beverages" in its by-laws. That's not biblical, so if they would have caught me having a bi-annual glass of wine with dinner, they could kick me out, and I'd gladly have left.
Hangin' around on the other side of the tracks of heaven, in a smoke-filled room, with a poker game, angels with strong Bronx, Queens, New York accents cuss about rival heavenly gangs (thems that got harps), and plot their demise.
Somehow, that isn't the heaven that everyone had in theri mind's eye.
Yet, smoking, drinking, gambling, and cussing (even in a Bronx accent) are not very big sins. Not compared to the sin of killing just one single innocent person. But to kill a million people (in a war)...a war that God had warned us not to fight (Iraq, according to Revelation in the bible)....and then make torture camps around the world (like the one in Guantanamo, Cuba (to evade the scrutiny of Congress which has to avoid war crimes or face trials at the Hague for violating the Geneva Conventions)., is unthinkably cruel, and no one engaged in such activities would be allowed in or even near heaven. They would, as Revelation says, be doomed to eternal damnation in the fiery pit of hell forever.
Drinking is a mild sin (gluttony/greed). Killing (especially a million people with a mass murder), is a huge sin, and an unforgiveable sin.
Now we face God's wrath (Relation 15: Seven mutations of covid) for killing Iraqis, and many pray to God for relief and don't find relief. That is because we now face God's punishments for disobeying Him. There is no forgiveness. There are no miracle cures. We are doomed to die on a planet that is doomed to be destroyed.
Iraq was a very special place to God (The Tower of Babel, Babylon)(Eden, between the Tigris and Euphrates). Now tank tracks over shards of broken pottery mark God's protected land, with bomb craters pot marking God's lands.
I realize that all of the above seem like sins.....drinking is a sin.....but I put it in perspective to show that one sin is greater than another. Drinking a beer vs. murdering a million people.....do you see the perspective?
Maybe if they only drank on holidays (like Canadian groundhog day?)?
Maybe we could pour a bag of sugar in wine and call it Mogen David, and use it to celebrate high holidays?
Maybe we could serve wafers and wine and tell everyone that they are eating the body and blood of Jesus. And, when they aren't looking, we could switch it for real body parts?
There are several types of alcohol (the kind that you drink (ethyl), rubbing alcohol (isopropel), or dangerous wood alcohol (methyl)).
100% is 200 proof. Thus 88 proof whiskey is 44 percent ethyl alcohol.
Vinovest | Investing in Wine as an Alternative Asset
Alcohol content of wines can be enhanced by adding more alcohol. That alcohol is obtained through distillation (a still--so watch out fer revenuers...feds who will chop up the machinery that makes the miracle elixer....granny's rumatiz medicine).
Unenhanced (from the natural fermentation process) wine is 12% (see website above for confirmation) which is 24 proof. Fermentation is caused by the yeast fungus digesting sugar (and other things that break down to sugar), then pissing out alcohol. Thus, alcohol is fungus **** (the waste product of a plant).
When we check into gambler's anonymous, we could bet the other gamblers that we could stop gambling before anyone else (doh....we lost when we made the bet).
When we check into alcoholic's anonymous, we could propose a toast (every day) to sobriety, and only drink on special occasions, like Tony Blair month to show support for England.
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of Betty Ford....Her trampling of the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored.
Many highly placed politicians have had trucks with alcohol. Ulysses S Grant, for example. George W. Bush turned to God to turn him away from drinking and using narcotics. On the other hand, the more narcotics that one uses, the more apt they are to see and have a conversation with God. Were W. Bush's morals high while he was high?
AA cures alcoholism. Then AAA is an insurance for those who drive and drink a lot?
Should have added - and by taxi, and with a large bill to pay according to the meter.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
The body is a temple, not a brothel.
"The Church says: the body is a sin.
Science says: the body is a machine.
Advertising says: The body is a business.
The Body says: I am a fiesta."
-Eduardo Galeano
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
A Ford fiesta?
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
Practical and affordable but lacking visibility in the rear?
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Quite, or else a 1300cc Samsara.
In my tradition smoking is prohibited, well sort of. See, weed consumption can be ritualistic and indeed has some spiritual value in certain traditions. Usually only though a process of making it into a drink though.
Alcohol is similarly frowned upon in my religion. In saying that, there is a Fijian tradition of incorporating Kava (a sort of alcohol like intoxicant) into ritualistic worship. Which may or may not be frowned upon by practitioners. Even as they imbibe it (it is a sin to reject “prasad” or food/drink offered in prayer. Of which kava can be a part of.)
Did always find that amusing lol
As for me, I know I drink way too much. Don’t smoke though.
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exchemist
Veteran Member
In UK terminology that is 2 "units" of alcohol/day, a unit being 10g alcohol. So 14 units/week.
There is also another supplementary recommendation, which is to make sure you have some days during the week when you do not drink alcohol at all, preferably including 2 consecutive days at some point. This is to make sure your liver has a chance to recover completely - and to avoid getting into the habit of always expecting a drink each day.....which can then become 2, etc.
I drink generally 12-14 units week but consume all but 2 of them over the weekend (Fri/Sat/Sun) - basically one bbl wine - and then have a beer or glass of wine midweek at some point.
P.S. This has nothing to do with any religious observance. It's due to managing a susceptibility to heart arrhythmia (AF). But I sleep particularly well on the nights that I don't drink.
P.P.S. I've never smoked.
Privately smoking and drinking is not the same as publicly promoting it.
My mission (should they choose to accept) for Hillsong is for all of them to try some alcohol and come cigarettes. They should have an event where they all try it. This will go 99% of the way towards healing and fixing this mess.
My mission (should they choose to accept) for Hillsong is for all of them to try some alcohol and come cigarettes. They should have an event where they all try it. This will go 99% of the way towards healing and fixing this mess.
