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Featured Drinking and smoking?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Apr 8, 2022.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I know on the special about Hillsong church one of the issues is that Pastor Carl Lentz was caught privately smoking and drinking and with a few people who were helping him plan the church who were close to him.

    I have no problem with him and his buddies smoking and drinking. Jesus drank and smoking is not in the bible.

    My problem is that he was hiding it and the reason is his church stands against it. It's the hypocrisy, not the actions I don't like.

    But I was thinking about the whole issue of smoking and drinking, so this question is for Christians and folks from other religions. What do you teach about drinking and smoking? My Mom was a member of a conservative Southern Baptist church where she taught Sunday school.
    They also taught and preached against smoking and drinking and my Mom was drunk as a skunk and smoked all the time behind the churches back.
     
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  2. The Hammer

    The Hammer Wyrd Wide Web
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    Moderation, for drinking and ritual purposes. Smoking, no rules really. Moderation applies basically across the board.
     
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  3. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    To refrain from intoxicants, since they mess with one's mind (and hence behaviour), is one of the five precepts of moral behaviour. I'm not aware of anything about smoking within Buddhism. (I don't consider the precepts to be absolutes - false speech is another precept and I know of at least one scenario where the Buddha considers telling a porky to be acceptable, indeed recommended).
     
    #3 Secret Chief, Apr 8, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
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  4. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    There is nothing sinful about smoking and drinking.

    Drinking moderately is actually good for you. Of course the key word there is moderately.

    Smoking is an obnoxious unhealthy bad habit. It's almost as bad as eating sugar. :)

    Was the pastor also eating sweet treats? SIN!!!! J/k :)
     
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  5. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    As I said I have no problems with that. It's the hypocrisy, they said it was being done in secret, secrecy is wrong.
     
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  6. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    The body is a temple, not a brothel. :D
     
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  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    If they were teaching from the pulpit that it is wrong, and doing it in secret, then yes that is hypocrisy. But if they aren't teaching that it is sin, it is not hypocrisy to keep it to yourself in a community that looks down on it. It's just smart.
     
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  8. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Well the 2 people who caught them when they did not know they were being seen, were 2 pastors of a different branch. So I assume the reason they are upset and called it unpastoral behavior is that the church teaches it's wrong.
     
  9. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    Mine used to be a smokey old pub, with racing on the telly and lock-ins every night.

    It's not like that now, it couldn't last. I retained the jukebox though.
     
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  10. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    I guess the pastors who exposed him were unfamiliar with John 8:7
     
  11. Aštra’el

    Aštra’el Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth

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    It depends on one’s priorities and lifestyle.

    There was a time- in college- when indulging in these things complemented my lifestyle, helped forge connections, did not significantly interfere with my objectives and brought about fun times and epic memories.

    These days however, smoking and drinking is discouraged since it is important to maintain or strive for peak physical fitness. On rare special occasions, however, it may be included to enhance an experience, especially ritualistic/ artistic purposes, or celebration. By and far however it is best to abstain, if one seeks to physically excel as much as possible, and operate with a clear mind.
     
  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    In general, the use of intoxicants is frowned upon in Hinduism, and there are certain sects that prohibit it outright, but because of the diversity in Hinduism, views vary.

    As I understand it, Hinduism in its nature is more about personal responsibility for one's own karma than it is telling people how they should live their lives.

    In my own personal view, smoking and drinking are adharmic attachments/desires and hinder one on their path to liberation.
     
  13. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    Having some heath benefits does not equal "good for you." Also with these health benefits come risk of certain types of cancers.

    Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits, such as:

    • Reducing your risk of developing and dying of heart disease
    • Possibly reducing your risk of ischemic stroke (when the arteries to your brain become narrowed or blocked, causing severely reduced blood flow)
    • Possibly reducing your risk of diabetes

    However, eating a healthy diet and being physically active have much greater health benefits and have been more extensively studied.

    Keep in mind that even moderate alcohol use isn't risk-free. For example, even light drinkers (those who have no more than one drink a day) have a tiny, but real, increased risk of some cancers, such as esophageal cancer. And drinking and driving is never a good idea.
    Also, if you are going to post such generalizations about a potentially dangerous intoxicant, it's helpful to define terms:

    Moderate alcohol use for healthy adults generally means up to one drink a day for women and up to two drinks a day for men.

    Examples of one drink include:

    • Beer: 12 fluid ounces (355 milliliters)
    • Wine: 5 fluid ounces (148 milliliters)
    • Distilled spirits (80 proof): 1.5 fluid ounces (44 milliliters)
    Alcohol in moderation: How many drinks is that?
     
  14. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
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    Is it, though? I would guess just about everyone has their own secrets. Yup. Even Christian folk.

    As long as your pastor is doing his job publicly and is actions have no direct affect on you or your congregation, what business is it of yours or anyone else's what he does behind closed doors? What he does falls in him. In my view, his actions are added to his karmic account. Even in Christianity, it's God's place to judge. In your church, it God's place to judge, or yours and the congregation's?

    Also, it seems like you're operating on hearsay. "They said" tells me you don't even have first hand knowledge of his smoking and drinking. Sounds like you may be just joining the lynch mob.
     
  15. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    These activities can be pleasurable, but they are also dangerous to our health. Especially so because they are highly addictive. As a result they should be engaged in with trepidation, and sparingly, it at all.

    One shouldn't need or rely on religion to tell them this. But unfortunately, many of us are not this clear thinking. And we live on a culture that will happily encourage us to kill ourselves for the sake of a profit. So religions have had to weigh in on the issue to help people make better decisions.
     
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I dont have a religion or teaching but personally don't like to drink or smoke and generally won't except where peer pressured to do so because I've noticed that some alcoholics and chain smokers are quite fanatical about it and feel judged if you dont join them.

    In my opinion.
     
  17. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    They are rituals. Shouldn't be done out of a ritual.
     
  18. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    You were the landlord? Or bought it?
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I teach not only Bible commands, but Bible principles - that is, principles that guides Christian living.

    The Bible does not have a set of rules for everything, but it sets out principles that guides us in everything we do.
    For example, one would not find written in the Bible... "Do not drive your car at 150 mph, or get involve in car racing sport".

    However, the Bible principles that guides us not to even love this sport, are found in scriptures that show how life is a gift, and is precious, and that we should love our neighbor.
    Deuteronomy 22:8 shows how seriously we should view life, so that we even want to consider not doing anything that could endanger the life of others.
    Car racing results in hundreds of injuries to limb, and hundreds of deaths to both driver and spectators.
    Even extreme sports and thrills, are avoided, based on these principles.

    Likewise, the Bible may not say, "Do not smoke cigars."
    However, the principle at 2 Corinthians 7:1 guides us.
    Principles on life and good health, are also included.
    cigarSmoking.jpg

    We apply Bible principle to the use of alcoholic beverages also.
    While the Bible does not condemn drinking wine in moderation, they are principles to consider.
    Heavy drinking and drunkenness though, is condemned.
    Proverbs 20:1; Proverbs 23:29-35; Isaiah 28:7; 1 Corinthians 6:10; Galatians 5:21; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Timothy 5:23
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Interestingly, I was looking at this article, only moments ago.
    Tobacco Sponsors Sports
    The tobacco industry’s extensive use of sports events and other entertainment for promoting their products creates “a positive association between sports . . . and cigarette smoking,” says Rhonda Galbally, of Australia’s Victorian Health Promotion Foundation. As a result, the often subtle tobacco advertising in sports may induce people to smoke. The Cancer Research Campaign in Britain found that “boys who enjoy watching Formula One motor racing on television are almost twice as likely to start smoking,” reports the news agency Panos. “Across Europe, tobacco companies spend several hundred million dollars every year in support of car racing alone.” And the cars are mobile advertisements that often appear on television.
     
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