Dress Code

[ForeverFaithful]

Hello I'm intrested in the Chassidics

They have a very intresting dress, does anyone know what the minium a Chassidic must wear at all time, and whatfore sports and/or swimming?

 

[TheKnight]

The minimum that a Hasid "must" wear is tzittzit on the corners of a four-cornered garment and (although there are opinions otherwise) some kind of head covering.

Other than that, there isn't necessarily any particular requirement for dress.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

The minimum that a Hasid "must" wear is tzittzit on the corners of a four-cornered garment and (although there are opinions otherwise) some kind of head covering.

Other than that, there isn't necessarily any particular requirement for dress.

So the Black suit is jus a tradition? Is there an amount of skin that must be covered
?

 

[Levite]

So the Black suit is jus a tradition? Is there an amount of skin that must be covered
?

The general minimum for most sects of Hasidism is that one must dress modestly (precisely what constitutes "modestly" is subject to some debate, but the general agreement is that it covers most of the body), and one must dress soberly (again, precise definition subject to debate, but the general agreement is that one should avoid bright colors or opulent fabrics, with the sole exception of permitting some silk and fur for Shabbat [sabbath] and holiday festivities), and one should dress seriously and not frivolously (generally agreed to include styles we might consider formal, or acceptable for business, and to disclude styles we might consider very casual).

Black and white suits have arisen as custom, in that they fit the bill in a strict fashion, and more so over time as they have become associated with haredi (ultra-Orthodox) culture, and have thus become a mark of stating one's position in regard to strict Orthodox interpretation.

There are various minor differences in dress that have become deeply dominant customs in certain sects, such as the wearing of frock coats rather than short coats, or knee-length stockings in the old style, style of beard maintenance or wearing the peyot (sidelocks), or style of hat and/or kippah (yarmulke), and suchlike, which often serve to distinguish the Hasidim of one sect from those of another.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

The general minimum for most sects of Hasidism is that one must dress modestly (precisely what constitutes "modestly" is subject to some debate, but the general agreement is that it covers most of the body), and one must dress soberly (again, precise definition subject to debate, but the general agreement is that one should avoid bright colors or opulent fabrics, with the sole exception of permitting some silk and fur for Shabbat [sabbath] and holiday festivities), and one should dress seriously and not frivolously (generally agreed to include styles we might consider formal, or acceptable for business, and to disclude styles we might consider very casual).

Black and white suits have arisen as custom, in that they fit the bill in a strict fashion, and more so over time as they have become associated with haredi (ultra-Orthodox) culture, and have thus become a mark of stating one's position in regard to strict Orthodox interpretation.

There are various minor differences in dress that have become deeply dominant customs in certain sects, such as the wearing of frock coats rather than short coats, or knee-length stockings in the old style, style of beard maintenance or wearing the peyot (sidelocks), or style of hat and/or kippah (yarmulke), and suchlike, which often serve to distinguish the Hasidim of one sect from those of another.

Is there any obligation to wear fur or silk? Are there more animal right's friendly materials?

 

[Levite]

Is there any obligation to wear fur or silk? Are there more animal right's friendly materials?

No, there is no obligation, per se. I would imagine that poorer Hasidim probably have Shabbat coats made from synthetic silk-like imitation materials, and streimlach (fur hats) made from imitation fur. And not everyone even wears silk or streimlach anyhow-- they are dominant customs in some Hasidic sects, but by no means all of them, and even in those sects where they are the dominant customs, there are minorities who do not embrace them for whatever reasons of their own (usually family customs).

But there is not much concept of "animal rights" in the haredi (ultra-Orthodox) community. That set of concepts is relatively foreign to the way those traditions deal with animals. One is not permitted undue cruelty to animals, of course-- everyone agrees about that. But the notions that people might want to not eat any animal flesh at all, or wear any animal skins, or any animal products, as a whole, for ethical reasons-- that is simply not part of how the strains of tradition embraced in most of the haredi world have dealt with animals, philosophically.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

No, there is no obligation, per se. I would imagine that poorer Hasidim probably have Shabbat coats made from synthetic silk-like imitation materials, and streimlach (fur hats) made from imitation fur. And not everyone even wears silk or streimlach anyhow-- they are dominant customs in some Hasidic sects, but by no means all of them, and even in those sects where they are the dominant customs, there are minorities who do not embrace them for whatever reasons of their own (usually family customs).

But there is not much concept of "animal rights" in the haredi (ultra-Orthodox) community. That set of concepts is relatively foreign to the way those traditions deal with animals. One is not permitted undue cruelty to animals, of course-- everyone agrees about that. But the notions that people might want to not eat any animal flesh at all, or wear any animal skins, or any animal products, as a whole, for ethical reasons-- that is simply not part of how the strains of tradition embraced in most of the haredi world have dealt with animals, philosophically.

Is there open hostility to animal rights? I meet that sometimes with Christians, however is to take animals into moral consideration frown upon? and in an unrelated note are they many Vegan Jewish dishes?

 

[Levite]

Is there open hostility to animal rights? I meet that sometimes with Christians, however is to take animals into moral consideration frown upon? and in an unrelated note are they many Vegan Jewish dishes?

In the haredi (ultra-Orthodox) world, there is not necessarily an open hostility to animal rights, per se. But you must understand that for that community, they deal with the world as entirely through their own interpretations of Torah as possible. They shun all secular philosophies and worldviews as much as they can. The issue for them would not actually be a hostility to treating animals well-- as I mentioned, there are ways of interpreting Jewish Law, even in the Orthodox world, that encourage such behavior-- but to embracing a secular philosophy. Even if they were to come to such conclusions through Jewish Law and Torah study, though, the result would probably be a compromise position. For example, Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook, first Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi of the State of Israel, was mostly vegetarian, and ethically desired to be entirely vegetarian, but, due to the constraints of custom and tradition (which encourage eating meat), compromised by only eating small amounts of meat on Shabbat (the sabbath) and holidays, or at weddings-- occasions when we are encouraged to eat meat as a sign of indulgence and festivity. And Rabbi Kook is, these days, considered fairly far to the left in Orthodoxy; his kind of compromise might well prove insufficient for many modern haredim.

As for vegan Jewish recipes, I'm sure there are, or there could be, even if not by design. There are many Jewish cultures, and many varieties of Jewish cooking. Most Ashkenazi (European) dishes either contain meat or dairy, but not all. I have had, for example, various kinds of tzimmes (stewed fruit compote) that do not contain meat. There are more likely candidates in Sefardi (Iberian) or Mizrachi (Middle Eastern) dishes. I have had, for example, a Yemenite lentil soup made without meat. And some kinds of minas (a matzah casserole made by both Sefardim and Mizrachim) are made without meat, and could be made without cheese or eggs.

But it is deeply unlikely to find vegans in the Orthodox world. That is simply foreign to them. In the haredi world, you're not even likely to find vegetarians. They would probably consider it secularism, to be dismissed.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

But it is deeply unlikely to find vegans in the Orthodox world. That is simply foreign to them. In the haredi world, you're not even likely to find vegetarians. They would probably consider it secularism, to be dismissed.

That's kinda depressing D:,
Though it explains the hour long conversation I had with my friend rabbi about kosher slaughter

 

[Rakhel]

But it is deeply unlikely to find vegans in the Orthodox world. That is simply foreign to them. In the haredi world, you're not even likely to find vegetarians. They would probably consider it secularism, to be dismissed.

Actually there are quite a...well I have met at least one Orthodox Jewish vegan who was Ashkenazi and had managed to successfully make Sephardi dishes. (Her fiance was an Iranian Jew). I have also run across a couple of food sites that list vegan and vegetarian dishes, including whole Seder menus for Pesach.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

Actually there are quite a...well I have met at least one Orthodox Jewish vegan who was Ashkenazi and had managed to successfully make Sephardi dishes. (Her fiance was an Iranian Jew). I have also run across a couple of food sites that list vegan and vegetarian dishes, including whole Seder menus for Pesach.

Well I do now a family of Vegetarian "Orthodox" (not observant really, but their rabbi is) Jews, and they're from Israel

 

[Rakhel]

Well I do now a family of Vegetarian "Orthodox" (not observant really, but their rabbi is) Jews, and they're from Israel

being Jewish and not eating meat can be done, however, I don't think it has anything to do with a hatred or prohibition against animals. Eating of meat is becoming more of a personal choice.

 

[Levite]

Actually there are quite a...well I have met at least one Orthodox Jewish vegan who was Ashkenazi and had managed to successfully make Sephardi dishes. (Her fiance was an Iranian Jew). I have also run across a couple of food sites that list vegan and vegetarian dishes, including whole Seder menus for Pesach.

being Jewish and not eating meat can be done, however, I don't think it has anything to do with a hatred or prohibition against animals. Eating of meat is becoming more of a personal choice.

I have met a number of Modern Orthodox vegetarians (though no vegans yet), and a couple of baalei teshuvah (formerly non-Orthodox, newly Orthodox) who were mekarev'ed (brought to Orthodoxy) through Aish or Chabad, who retained their vegetarianism; but I have yet to meet a truly haredi vegetarian. I am prepared to believe there might be some out there, but I would be shocked if they even made up a significant minority of haredim.

It's true that personal choices in eating are slowly working their way into Orthodoxy, but I doubt there will be any significant trending toward veg/veganism in the haredi communities any time soon.

 

[CMike]

The minimum that a Hasid "must" wear is tzittzit on the corners of a four-cornered garment and (although there are opinions otherwise) some kind of head covering.

Other than that, there isn't necessarily any particular requirement for dress.

^This

 

[CMike]

Well I do now a family of Vegetarian "Orthodox" (not observant really, but their rabbi is) Jews, and they're from Israel

I would say that is quite rare.

 

[CMike]

But it is deeply unlikely to find vegans in the Orthodox world. That is simply foreign to them. In the haredi world, you're not even likely to find vegetarians. They would probably consider it secularism, to be dismissed.

Not necessarily.

They just generally like to eat meat.

 

[Avi1001]

They just generally like to eat meat.

Hi CMike,

Right, but I hope they don't eat beef ! That stuff is high in cholesterol, and we wouldn't want to see any Jews mess up their lipid profiles, right ?

BTW, are you Chasidic, CMike ?

 

[Rakhel]

As has been stated in the thread, 95% of Orthodox Jews are meat eaters. That means beef, bison, turkey, chicken, lamb, veal, duck, goose and pigeon. Yes I said pigeon. It is kosher.
You will rarely, and I mean rarely, find an Orthodox Jew that is Vegetarian, and fewer still that are vegan. The one vegan I met was from Israel and was cooking meals taught to her by her, then, future mother-in-law who was an Iraqi Jew.

 

[CMike]

Hi CMike,

Right, but I hope they don't eat beef ! That stuff is high in cholesterol, and we wouldn't want to see any Jews mess up their lipid profiles, right ?

BTW, are you Chasidic, CMike ?

I am not.

 

[CMike]

If G-D didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of meat.