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Dream of Thomas Paine

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
I have been talking about Thomas Paine lately on other threads. And I thought it would be interesting to show you all when and how I came about my fascination for Thomas Paine. Before having this dream (cut-and-pasted below), I knew nothing of Thomas Paine, other than he lived a long time ago and wrote something. I had no more knowledge of him other than that he was influential at one time in American history.

Dream from Nap on evening of Saturday, July 8, 2006:


Woke at Approx. 10:12 p.m.

I was experimenting flying backwards in some sort of vehicle that was kind of a like car, but it can fly, hover. It reminds me of a swing. The kind of swing that are looped, hanging in a tree: a one-seater, usually.

I was going backwards, witnessed by three adults (2 females and 1 male who were standing at the corner of a city street within a suburb area, where there were houses). There was a swing hanging from a tree behind them. It was one of those red plastic toddler swings.

I could experience (to some degree) the momentum of acceleration and movement. Everything was going backwards (through my perspective). As acceleration increased, it appeared like a warp tunnel or very, very blurred images from outside of me. In other words, I was going so fast, my environment was blurred. I could feel the acceleration and deceleration. I saw the images of my environment slow and become clearer upon deceleration. Interestingly, I ‘landed’ right at the same place I had started. (Perhaps it warped time?) The vehicle goes so fast that even the deceleration process requires much distance to completely stop. One could conceivable go whole continents, or perhaps whole planets or more within just the deceleration process to come to a stop.

The next scene in the dream was a battle scene. It looked like a war between the “cowboys and Indians,” but there was a 1957 turquoise and white Chevy driving in the middle of the same grassy and hilly terrain being used as the battle field.

The scene shifted again immediately, and I was listening to a curator or tour guide of a museum talking about a folklore concerning Thomas Payne. The museum guide said that after Thomas Payne’s head was cut off [during a battle], he picked up his own head, with his own fingers. He then turned his severed head to see his dead enemies [on the battle field]. To which he replied (from his severed head), “It thrills me.”

There was something about his fingers being very long. And only through a surviving sketch of Thomas Payne’s fingers did the researchers know whether or not there was any validity to the folklore, so said the museum guide.

Then I woke up.
On the evening of the next day, July 9, 2006, a friend and I were talking via Yahoo! Messenger. He holds a Bachelor’s degree in History; and he had just finished telling me that he had spent the previous evening reading about the French Revolution. It was then that I related my dream to him. Immediately, he began in internet search for information concerning Thomas Paine.

We were both shocked at the results. Apparently, Thomas Paine, who lived during the time of the French Revolution, had been imprisoned in France and was scheduled to be executed. The common form of execution, at that time in France was beheading by the guillotine, which is a French invention. Thomas Paine escaped from the French prison and fled to the Americas, where he died, at an old age, in New York City. He was so hated that his burial ground was desecrated and his skull and right hand had been stolen. Researchers, even today, are trying to find DNA evidence to examine persons claiming to own the skull or hand of Thomas Paine.

Furthermore, another parallel in the dream was the obvious swing “hanging in a tree.” There was, of the same last name, a man by the name of Lewis Paine, who lived during the Civil War. He was a conspirator and friend of John Wilkes Booth. He was later hanged from a tree; afterwards, his burial ground was also desecrated and his skull removed.

Other symbolism in the dream included the number 57. Interestingly enough, in the US Constitution, in the First Amendment, concerning Religion, Thomas Paine wrote “Document 57,” which is an article detailing the necessity of the separation of Church and State. http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/amendI_religions57.html

…By the way, the evening of July 9, 2006, I had never studied Thomas Paine or known of any of the information concerning his imprisonment in France or the desecration of his grave.

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]In 1957, Lee Hays wrote a song using the words of Thomas Paine. The words were from the pamphlet Common Sense. A great poet, Walt Whitman, encouraged poets to write about great events of American history. The song was titled "Wasn't That a Time?"[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
Song Lyric as sung by Dick Gaughan

As I dreamed out one evening
By a river of discontent
I bumped straight into old Tom Paine
As running down the road he went
He said, "I can't stop right now, child,
King George is after me
He'd have a rope around my throat
And hang me on the Liberty Tree"

But I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones
I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones

"I only talked about freedom
And justice for everyone
But since the very first word I spoke
I've been looking down the barrel of a gun
They say I preached revolution
Let me say in my defence
That all I did wherever I went
Was to talk a lot of common sense"

Old Tom Paine he ran so fast
He left me standing still
And there I was, a piece of paper in my hand
Standing at the top of the hill
It said, "This is the Age Of Reason
These are The Rights Of Man
Kick off religion and monarchy"
It was written there in Tom Paine's plan

Old Tom Paine, there he lies
Nobody laughs and nobody cries
Where he's gone or how he fares
Nobody knows and nobody cares

But I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones
I will dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance to Tom Paine's bones
Dance in the oldest boots I own
To the rhythm of Tom Paine's bones
 

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
Lyrics to "Wasn't That a Time" as sung by Peter, Paul and Mary:
Our fathers bled at Valley Forge, the snow was red with blood
Their faith was worn at Valley Forge,
Their faith was brotherhood.

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Wasn't that a terrible time?

Brave men who fought at Gettysburg now lie in soldier's graves
But there they stemmed the rebel tide
And there their faith was saved

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
wasn't that a terrible time?

The wars are long, the peace is frail, the madmen come again.
There is no freedom in a land where fear and hate prevail.

Isn't this a time, isn't this a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Isn't this a terrible time?

Our fathers bled at Valley Forge, the snow was red with blood
Their faith was worn at Valley Forge,
Their faith was brotherhood.

Wasn't that a time, wasn't that a time?
A time to try the soul of men,
Wasn't that a terrible time?
 

Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
Paine's Age of Reason is still considered one of the most influential books on what is now called "classical Deism", which was at its heyday during his life. Paine and many of the other founders of the US were Deists, arguably including Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Ethan Allen, James Madison (whose political battle with Patrick Henry gave us the concept of the separation of church and state), John Adams, and perhaps George Washington.

Some of Paine's thoughts:
The Bible is a book that has been read more and examined less than any book that ever existed.

As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men.

There are matters in the Bible, said to be done by the express commandment of God, that are shocking to humanity and to every idea we have of moral justice.

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.

Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live in; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity.

My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.
 

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
That's fascinating yuvgotmel. I don't know how or why it happens but dreams can seemingly pluck things out of the air like that.

Yeah... I have had that happen before too...especially in the most powerful dream of my life.... Not sure if you have read that one, but it pertains to this year and the timing of the upcoming eclipses in August and September.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46770

As August gets closer, I will start posting that dream again and talking more about what I have learned from my research of that dream.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Great composite symbolism and synchronicity in the dream you linked to. Your analysis is a work of art too. Do you keep a dream diary?

Incidentally, when I was 16 I had a dramatic dream that symbolically represented very clearly the major events that would take place in my life for the following two years. These were things I had no inkling of when the dream occurred and only understood the striking connections in retrospect. Although it was nowhere near as rich in detail as the dream you linked to part of it heralded an encounter with occult freemasonry and such things too which changed my entire spiritual path also. Well, I didn't understand what it meant at the time but things unfolded just like the dream.
 

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
Great composite symbolism and synchronicity in the dream you linked to. Your analysis is a work of art too.

Much of the research that I have found concerning that dream is available here at this link: http://www.spirit-of-the-torah.com/computer.html << That is way more in depth than what I have explained on this forum so far.

Do you keep a dream diary?

Yes. And as you may know, that is one of the first strongly suggested requirements for a student of the occult & metaphysics. However, I started recording many of my dreams long before then. My dreams began as a very young child.

Incidentally, when I was 16 I had a dramatic dream that symbolically represented very clearly the major events that would take place in my life for the following two years. These were things I had no inkling of when the dream occurred and only understood the striking connections in retrospect. Although it was nowhere near as rich in detail as the dream you linked to part of it heralded an encounter with occult freemasonry and such things too which changed my entire spiritual path also. Well, I didn't understand what it meant at the time but things unfolded just like the dream.

Awesome. Do you consider yourself a "dreamer"? Do you continue to have "strange" dreams? If so, I would love to read them.

I have mentioned before about a possible sub-forum devoted to dreams and dream interpretation. However, I guess that the Divination sub-forum is as good as any other.
 

Scarlett Wampus

psychonaut
Much of the research that I have found concerning that dream is available here at this link: http://www.spirit-of-the-torah.com/computer.html << That is way more in depth than what I have explained on this forum so far.
No kidding. Way more in depth than any dream interpretation I've ever made too, but then I've never had a dream like that one you had before. :)

Yes. And as you may know, that is one of the first strongly suggested requirements for a student of the occult & metaphysics. However, I started recording many of my dreams long before then. My dreams began as a very young child.
Yep, its a great thing to do. I used to record dreams, results of divination, musings , insights and normal personal stuff too. Nowadays I tend to focus almost entirely on dreams and insights.

I did something dumb one time and put years and years of my magickal diaries on a bonfire. At the time I considered them too personal to keep around and also felt it was a way to leave behind some of my misadventures. An unfortunate decision as they'd be really useful now. I'd also like being able to give them to someone I'm close to.

Awesome. Do you consider yourself a "dreamer"? Do you continue to have "strange" dreams? If so, I would love to read them.

I have mentioned before about a possible sub-forum devoted to dreams and dream interpretation. However, I guess that the Divination sub-forum is as good as any other.
Very much a "dreamer" :) Although I've been out of the habit for a few months I usually write down all my dreams. Its hard given that they often fade quite fast and writing them down can be a pain but I had a good system going that I should use again: I can set up my PDA so I can use it like a Dictaphone and record myself describing dreams. This way I can get a record of the dream quickly upon awaking without having to get up. Then I can go back to sleep easily if its not time to get up. Later on in the day when I've got a moment I can write them up more leisurely.

That dream I mentioned I had when I was 16, I've got a typed up version of it already that I'll post below. I'll put in little comments in blue explaining how the dream related to events in the months that followed. A dream like this is unusual for me since in retrospect it was almost too blatant: -

I was walking over a hill close to my house with my father, mother and brother. We lived in a valley at that time and there was a west hill which had many houses on it and an east hill which had been left alone, partly because it was the site of an old stone age community. As we walked we all became aware that something was following us. Stag horns appeared sticking out from bushes behind and each time we looked back they were closer. It didn't seem dangerous but nevertheless we didn't want to find out what it was that was wearing them so we sped up our walking. As dusk started to draw near we were full out running. At the top of the steep incline heading down to the bottom of the hill we all slipped, lost grip on each other's hands and tumbled down the hill, being knocked unconscious in the process as things faded to black.

When I came round it was night. I was at the bottom of the hill and saw my father and brother unconscious on the ground but my mother was nowhere to be found. Surrounding us in a circle were various figures. They were archaic Gods and I found them so overwhelming all I could do was look at their feet to keep myself from panicking. I managed to revive my father and brother enough to get them on their feet and helped them stumble back to the house, though they both remained half asleep, moaning with their eyes closed.


A couple of months after the dream my mother made the surprise announcement that she was separating from my father and was going to live on the other side of the country. Shortly before this happened I'd found a book on Magick and had become fascinated by the whole subject, though quite apprehensive.

The impact of my mother leaving was initially much worse on my father and brother. They both went off the rails and leant on me quite heavily.


Once I'd got them back inside the house and helped them into bed I heard a loud banging getting louder from the street outside. Sticking my head out of the window I saw a very tall darkly shrouded figure but different to the one from early on in the dream. This figure was really scary. As I looked around I noticed there were lots of eldritch fairy folk hiding over the other side of the road. When my eyes met theirs they had a horrified gaze and shook their heads. Without making any noise I made gestures that they should run away but they just seemed frozen to the spot. I ran downstairs and into the front room. Something bad was going to happen but I had no idea what to do to stop it. I saw the dark figure pass the windows in the other room and knew it had come to our door. It knocked just like it had on the other doors but waited outside instead of moving on. The door handle began to change into a pale hand which slowly turned and reached for a knocker that was now on the inside of the door. I realised it was going to open the door from the inside, and feeling panic rising up inside me I lunged forward and tried screaming at it. As I did so I was briefly transformed into a Minotaur-like creature. The feeling of the transformation, the sound of my feet pounding loudly on the ground and the roar coming out of my mouth was more scary to me than the thing outside the door! Nevertheless it did the trick and the hand stopped where it was and withdrew.

The academic pressure I was under combined with missing my mother and having to support my father and brother emotionally without any support myself became just too much as time went on. I became suicidally depressed and began to have very dark thoughts. Panic attacks and paranoia came next. My sadness and anger at everything had no outlet you see. I didn't want to add to the problems the rest of my family were having. It was also a shock since I'd never experienced such difficult feelings before.

I did find a way to deal with it eventually and that was to focus on fighting against the debilitating effects of my own depression and fears (with the help of my anger). It worked and all that began to fall away quite fast. In fact it worked a little too well as time went on and three years from then I'd so fiercely confident and competitive that I was quite oblivious to many of my limitations. Pride comes before the fall sorta thing. Regardless, initially I needed it to get me out of that hole.


I could finally sleep and on going to bed had a dream (in the dream) about where my mother had got to. She was at the top of a large nunnery with many floors that was built into the hillside. All of them had nuns looking after babies in them and my mother was the only one not dressed as a nun. Suddenly there was a commotion. My mother had stolen a baby and was running away with it. The nuns where shouting and trying to hold her back but they couldn't stop her.

My mother leaving ended a certain sense of childhood innocence and caused me to harden up quite abruptly, even though I was already 16. It also ended my then superficial curiousity in Catholicism since I found no solace in it at that time.

The next morning (in the dream) my father and brother were carrying on as normal and couldn't remember anything that had happened after they'd fallen down the hill. However, every time I looked up at the east hill from our house the sun started to rise up over it and two Egyptian gods, a male and a female, would slowly lift themselves up until their heads were either side of the sun. After that a whole host of mystics and saints from different religions (the daylight forms of the Gods who'd surrounded us the night before) would start pouring over the top of the hill led by an amazing Chinese hermit. They went down the slope we'd tumbled down and slowly weaved their way through the trees until they approached via the garden path to our back door. I would watch them for a while then break away. However, as soon as I looked at the hill again the process would start over. I tried to show my brother and father but they couldn't see them. Wondering why I could I felt dizzy - started seeing strange colour distortions in everything and laughing.

After things started to calm down that year I met an amazing couple who were experienced occultists. The two Egyptian gods likely relate to them and the flood of different religious figures the enormous world they helped introduce me to, though I'd already discovered Taoism previously. My brother and father didn't share my interests at all and this made me curious about my mind (especially after that period of depression and anxiety) so I started to read as much as I could about psychology and psychoanalysis. I also discovered entheogens which quite literally caused colour distortions and laughing. :)

The dream ended in a town carnival where I became involved in a fight with a deity with many heads and limbs. I woke before the fight was concluded.

I'm not sure what this part relates to, if anything.
 

yuvgotmel

Well-Known Member
That's quite a dream for a 16-year-old.

I would love to read more of your dreams.

It would be really good if there was more participation from RF members concerning openness towards dreams, visions and experiences. I have been finding more and more lately that there are some members who are eager to hear this stuff. I have been monitoring my dreams and other people's dreams for years. I'll never turn down listening to someone's dreams.
 

niranjan

Member
Hi , I am an Indian. I read this when I was in school and I have never forgotten it all these years. This is one of the most powerful quotes I have ever read in my life and which has greatly influenced me.


The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.

-----Thomas Paine


Amen to that. :yes:
 
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