Don't lie to me...

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Funny thing, I was listening to sort of philosophical argument about religion the other day, and suddenly heard music that I have know just about literally all of my life:

Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak, but He is strong

Like many of you, I was taught this when I was very little, and the words and music are indelibly imprinted on my mind. (This is not all that strange -- as someone who loves to act and sing, I have a fabulous memory for music and lyrics. I can remember things, even in other languages, that I learned 60 years ago and more.)

But back to the lie...maybe it was just this simple how Christianity lost me as a customer (or tithe payer, which I think they prefer). You see, when I was very, very little, my step-father used to enjoy drinking himself stupid, and then coming home and beating up his wife (my mother) and me. I lived with them in this horror from the ages of 4 to 7, and at 5 and 7, he did in fact nearly kill me. Then the Children's Aid won a court order that severed me from them forever.

But, what happens to a kid who hears this really important, so-called truth: that there is an immensely powerful being who loves me, and is so much stronger than everybody else that he can also save me? And then that kid goes home, likely to be beaten up by somebody 8 times his size, possibly leading to another trip to the hospital -- and who actually asks this Jesus for help?

What is he likely to wind up believing? That Jesus loves him? That Jesus is strong enough to stop the hurt? Or that none of that seems to be true?

And how do you rate the likelihood that this bull**** cost the church another believer?

 

[SalixIncendium]

I missed the part of the song that mentions Jesus stops the hurt...

 

[Brickjectivity]

Funny thing, I was listening to sort of philosophical argument about religion the other day, and suddenly heard music that I have know just about literally all of my life:

Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak, but He is strong

Like many of you, I was taught this when I was very little, and the words and music are indelibly imprinted on my mind. (This is not all that strange -- as someone who loves to act and sing, I have a fabulous memory for music and lyrics. I can remember things, even in other languages, that I learned 60 years ago and more.)

But back to the lie...maybe it was just this simple how Christianity lost me as a customer (or tithe payer, which I think they prefer). You see, when I was very, very little, my step-father used to enjoy drinking himself stupid, and then coming home and beating up his wife (my mother) and me. I lived with them in this horror from the ages of 4 to 7, and at 5 and 7, he did in fact nearly kill me. Then the Children's Aid won a court order that severed me from them forever.

But, what happens to a kid who hears this really important, so-called truth: that there is an immensely powerful being who loves me, and is so much stronger than everybody else that he can also save me? And then that kid goes home, likely to be beaten up by somebody 8 times his size, possibly leading to another trip to the hospital -- and who actually asks this Jesus for help?

What is he likely to wind up believing? That Jesus loves him? That Jesus is strong enough to stop the hurt? Or that none of that seems to be true?

And how do you rate the likelihood that this bull**** cost the church another believer?

As for me I never encountered anyone upon whom alcohol had that effect, so I was very fortunate. It is really the pits that you were getting beat up. Its far worse than anything I ever experienced as a child. I have only ever been beaten up one time when I was around 18 or so, and that was by a gang of crack addicts at 1am.

I was taught this song, too. Also we sang "This is the day" in both English and for some reason in French, too. Nobody spoke French, but we learned it anyway. As children we of course changed the words. Instead of Voici le jour we'd say "Sausage for you," because that's what kids did.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The standard line is, "Jesus never promises you a rose garden. On the contrary he says to take up your cross and follow him." On the other hand Jesus also says, "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Jesus loves to constantly talk out of both sides of his mouth. I'm sure millions of abused children all over the world are wondering what in the hell he's talking about.

 

[Kenny]

Funny thing, I was listening to sort of philosophical argument about religion the other day, and suddenly heard music that I have know just about literally all of my life:

Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak, but He is strong

Like many of you, I was taught this when I was very little, and the words and music are indelibly imprinted on my mind. (This is not all that strange -- as someone who loves to act and sing, I have a fabulous memory for music and lyrics. I can remember things, even in other languages, that I learned 60 years ago and more.)

But back to the lie...maybe it was just this simple how Christianity lost me as a customer (or tithe payer, which I think they prefer). You see, when I was very, very little, my step-father used to enjoy drinking himself stupid, and then coming home and beating up his wife (my mother) and me. I lived with them in this horror from the ages of 4 to 7, and at 5 and 7, he did in fact nearly kill me. Then the Children's Aid won a court order that severed me from them forever.

But, what happens to a kid who hears this really important, so-called truth: that there is an immensely powerful being who loves me, and is so much stronger than everybody else that he can also save me? And then that kid goes home, likely to be beaten up by somebody 8 times his size, possibly leading to another trip to the hospital -- and who actually asks this Jesus for help?

What is he likely to wind up believing? That Jesus loves him? That Jesus is strong enough to stop the hurt? Or that none of that seems to be true?

And how do you rate the likelihood that this bull**** cost the church another believer?

I guess it is all in how you process it and certainly you have an experience that needs much processing because it is a horrible thing to go through. I know you have studied the Bible which would automatically negate your viewpoint that you mentioned here in the song.

Then again, since we can't see God or His angels, is there a possibility that the reason you are still alive is because He was involved? One never knows.

And judging by the tone of your OP, and perhaps even understandably so, you are still processing.

May you find peace.

 

[Aštra’el]

People who experience great pain and suffering in life can find something to help them get through it, and for many people through many dark times in many eras, that something was found in Jesus (Christianity). Or, more specifically, God (Judaism/ Christianity, Islam/ other religions) or gods (numerous other religions), or religion in general. Death, sickness, calamity, violence, war, etc.... everyone experiences these things. While religion is obviously not needed to persevere through them, it can certainly help, and not just when things are at their worst. Our God(s) make us stronger, in addition to our other strengths. So through the good times and the bad times, we have something extra inside of us, fueling our drive even more to persist and keep going, to reach for a greater future and make our hopes and dreams a reality.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Well,you see, Jesus is letting humans control the earth for now. People do not want Jesus to control things. Think of the person dying from lung cancer who still wants another cigarette. That person does not want Jesus to step in and take the cigarette from his hand. The alcoholic who is about to get in a car and run over someone does not want Jesus to take away the car keys. Jesus is letting people run things so they can see that they are not able to prevent trouble from happening. It is sad that some people will get hurt it is noot fair to stop some problems and not stop others. Humans must learn to stop their own problems.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I missed the part of the song that mentions Jesus stops the hurt...

How very clever!

Of course, nothing at all should be read into the fact that in just 4 little lines, we are told that:

Jesus loves me
Jesus is strong
I belong to him (because I'm little and weak)

But, alas, he either doesn't love me enough -- or isn't strong enough -- to prevent the hurt being done to me.

Let me put it this way: I have a little friend (the 8 year old son of my best friend), who I love very dearly. And if anybody on earth tried to hurt him while I was around, it wouldn't matter how much stronger than me they were -- I woud defend him to my own death.

Jesus, on the other hand, left my stepfather to his own devices -- "hey, kill the little kid if you want to, why should I care?"

I merely point out that what all that said to me is very simple -- everything I was told about religion was a complete lie.

That may take a little ability to analyze and think logically. I've had that all my life. Not everybody has, apparently.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I guess it is all in how you process it and certainly you have an experience that needs much processing because it is a horrible thing to go through. I know you have studied the Bible which would automatically negate your viewpoint that you mentioned here in the song.

Then again, since we can't see God or His angels, is there a possibility that the reason you are still alive is because He was involved? One never knows.

And judging by the tone of your OP, and perhaps even understandably so, you are still processing.

May you find peace.

Tragically, Ken, I am not still trying to process --- I'm trying to figure out why so many other people are so freaking gullible.

 

[Kenny]

Tragically, Ken, I am not still trying to process --- I'm trying to figure out why so many other people are so freaking gullible.

Glad you have processed it!

Youthfulness, probably. Lack of knowledge too. There are many unbiblical songs that people sing.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How very clever!

Of course, nothing at all should be read into the fact that in just 4 little lines, we are told that:

Jesus loves me
Jesus is strong
I belong to him (because I'm little and weak)

But, alas, he either doesn't love me enough -- or isn't strong enough -- to prevent the hurt being done to me.

Let me put it this way: I have a little friend (the 8 year old son of my best friend), who I love very dearly. And if anybody on earth tried to hurt him while I was around, it wouldn't matter how much stronger than me they were -- I woud defend him to my own death.

Jesus, on the other hand, left my stepfather to his own devices -- "hey, kill the little kid if you want to, why should I care?"

I merely point out that what all that said to me is very simple -- everything I was told about religion was a complete lie.

That may take a little ability to analyze and think logically. I've had that all my life. Not everybody has, apparently.

Yet you’re who you are today as a result of your experiences. And based on what I’ve learned about you here, I think you turned out quite well.

What would your life have been like if believing in Jesus was like pressing the “easy” button?

The best parents have to make make difficult decisions to grant experiences that will help their child make good decisions. My daughter wouldn’t be the strong woman she is if I sheltered her from every potential hurt along the way.

 

[Kenny]

How very clever!

Of course, nothing at all should be read into the fact that in just 4 little lines, we are told that:

Jesus loves me
Jesus is strong
I belong to him (because I'm little and weak)

But, alas, he either doesn't love me enough -- or isn't strong enough -- to prevent the hurt being done to me.

Let me put it this way: I have a little friend (the 8 year old son of my best friend), who I love very dearly. And if anybody on earth tried to hurt him while I was around, it wouldn't matter how much stronger than me they were -- I woud defend him to my own death.

Jesus, on the other hand, left my stepfather to his own devices -- "hey, kill the little kid if you want to, why should I care?"

I merely point out that what all that said to me is very simple -- everything I was told about religion was a complete lie.

That may take a little ability to analyze and think logically. I've had that all my life. Not everybody has, apparently.

Again, the song isn't biblical... but I think we can look at a more macro viewpoint using it as an analogy:

19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Let's say this is your dad - he's just living his life without a care.
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Let's say this is you. The sores of dad afflicted you. Please note that problems do come (poverty) - Jesus acknowledged that pain comes and it does happen to people -
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
he (you) wanted to be free of problems--help didn't come (or at least not how you wanted). the rich man (your father) - kept on living as if he had no responsibilities and was free to do evil
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
He died with his problems (I am thankful that you staid alive) - he died also (inevitable for all people)
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
BUT that isn't the end of all things. Lazarus is now free from all hurts and the one who inflicted pain is now in pain. The tables have changed and the recompense for the crying, the hurting and the dying.

So basically, there would still be justice - and maybe a greater recompense for you. But I certainly would say that because a song wasn't scriptural then everything they said was a lie.

 

[sun rise]

For Christians or at least Catholics, this statement says that it's up to us to fix problems on Earth. This to me is true whether one is a Christian, non believer or believer in another religion. It's up to us.

“Christ has no body now but yours. No hands, no feet on earth but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses all the world. Yours are the hands, yours are the feet, yours are the eyes, you are his body. Christ has no body now on earth but yours.”

― Teresa of Avila

 

[Left Coast]

How very clever!

Of course, nothing at all should be read into the fact that in just 4 little lines, we are told that:

Jesus loves me
Jesus is strong
I belong to him (because I'm little and weak)

But, alas, he either doesn't love me enough -- or isn't strong enough -- to prevent the hurt being done to me.

Let me put it this way: I have a little friend (the 8 year old son of my best friend), who I love very dearly. And if anybody on earth tried to hurt him while I was around, it wouldn't matter how much stronger than me they were -- I woud defend him to my own death.

Jesus, on the other hand, left my stepfather to his own devices -- "hey, kill the little kid if you want to, why should I care?"

I merely point out that what all that said to me is very simple -- everything I was told about religion was a complete lie.

That may take a little ability to analyze and think logically. I've had that all my life. Not everybody has, apparently.

Although I totally hear you and agree that whatever "love" a celestial Jesus has for us is an incredibly ****ty kind of love, I would caution that it's not necessarily a "lie." An irrational belief can be honestly held. And I think that's where most Christians are coming from. They're not intentionally deceiving anyone.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

For Christians or at least Catholics, this statement says that it's up to us to fix problems on Earth. This to me is true whether one is a Christian, non believer or believer in another religion. It's up to us.

“Christ has no body now but yours. No hands, no feet on earth but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses all the world. Yours are the hands, yours are the feet, yours are the eyes, you are his body. Christ has no body now on earth but yours.”

― Teresa of Avila

What's the point of having a God if you have to do all his work?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Although I totally hear you and agree that whatever "love" a celestial Jesus has for us is an incredibly ****ty kind of love, I would caution that it's not necessarily a "lie." An irrational belief can be honestly held. And I think that's where most Christians are coming from. They're not intentionally deceiving anyone.

My point was not really about Christians lying, however. My point is that if you promise me what you cannot deliver -- I am very unlikely to believe any other promises you might make.

 

[Thief]

Funny thing, I was listening to sort of philosophical argument about religion the other day, and suddenly heard music that I have know just about literally all of my life:

Jesus loves me, this I know
For the Bible tells me so
Little ones to Him belong
They are weak, but He is strong

Like many of you, I was taught this when I was very little, and the words and music are indelibly imprinted on my mind. (This is not all that strange -- as someone who loves to act and sing, I have a fabulous memory for music and lyrics. I can remember things, even in other languages, that I learned 60 years ago and more.)

But back to the lie...maybe it was just this simple how Christianity lost me as a customer (or tithe payer, which I think they prefer). You see, when I was very, very little, my step-father used to enjoy drinking himself stupid, and then coming home and beating up his wife (my mother) and me. I lived with them in this horror from the ages of 4 to 7, and at 5 and 7, he did in fact nearly kill me. Then the Children's Aid won a court order that severed me from them forever.

But, what happens to a kid who hears this really important, so-called truth: that there is an immensely powerful being who loves me, and is so much stronger than everybody else that he can also save me? And then that kid goes home, likely to be beaten up by somebody 8 times his size, possibly leading to another trip to the hospital -- and who actually asks this Jesus for help?

What is he likely to wind up believing? That Jesus loves him? That Jesus is strong enough to stop the hurt? Or that none of that seems to be true?

And how do you rate the likelihood that this bull**** cost the church another believer?

my life had a shakey start
I could write an autobiography

but the denial of Someone that had nothing to do with .....you
is a false association

try the book of Job

 

[Left Coast]

My point was not really about Christians lying, however. My point is that if you promise me what you cannot deliver -- I am very unlikely to believe any other promises you might make.

That's quite true. I've heard others recently describe these sentiments as "spiritual bypassing." They are surface level emotional appeals that shield us from grappling with and accepting (or working to end) painful realities of life. "God is in control" is another example.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

my life had a shakey start
I could write an autobiography

but the denial of Someone that had nothing to do with .....you
is a false association

try the book of Job

You may not have read my thoughts on Job before, although I have spent a fair amount of time on the topic. I find it to be one of the very worst books of the Bible.

At very minimum, you have to acknowledge this: God let all of Job's children be killed. Getting another batch of children later may be some comfort, but doesn't redress the deaths of the others.

 

[Deeje]

maybe it was just this simple how Christianity lost me as a customer (or tithe payer, which I think they prefer). You see, when I was very, very little, my step-father used to enjoy drinking himself stupid, and then coming home and beating up his wife (my mother) and me. I lived with them in this horror from the ages of 4 to 7, and at 5 and 7, he did in fact nearly kill me. Then the Children's Aid won a court order that severed me from them forever.

So you were rescued eventually after you had endured 3 years of drunken abuse from someone who was not your biological father? Put into perspective, I can see that from a child's point of view 3 years would seem like an eternity....but what is three years compared to a lifetime that others have had to endure ongoing abuse, through no fault on their part? There is no denying that the abuse damaged you, but I think your religious education set you up for even more pain than your step-father's beatings. Who gave you the impression that Jesus would make the hurt go away? All he ever promised is that he would support us through the hardships that would inevitably come from humans throwing God and his rules out the window. This is a world created by man and the 'wannbe' god who took God's place. The Bible tells the whole story, but people who are at the mercy of their church's ignorance have been harmed by only hearing bits of the story, giving them false expectations and making God out to be a fiend...uncaring and unloving. Nothing could be further from the truth. Sometimes painful operations are needed to correct physical problems...the same applies spiritually.

But, what happens to a kid who hears this really important, so-called truth: that there is an immensely powerful being who loves me, and is so much stronger than everybody else that he can also save me? And then that kid goes home, likely to be beaten up by somebody 8 times his size, possibly leading to another trip to the hospital -- and who actually asks this Jesus for help?

There you have it....you were set up to believe a lie...I still hear the child whose spirit was crushed, whose religious teachers led him to believe that he was not good enough for God to care about. That is abominable!

Jesus loves us, but his love means more than a band aid and a "kiss it better". He is taking us through the greatest object lesson in the history of this world....why? Because he wants us to enjoy God's creation without evil ever touching us again.....remember what it was that Adam and his wife did in the garden....they wanted to know good and evil for themselves......did they know how bad evil could get? They and their children would soon find out. The depths were unimaginable!

At the end of this lesson, all humans will have experienced the reasons why God said he would keep that knowledge to himself. They will all be wishing that they had never known it....and they will then have incentive never to want to go there again.
Do you see the benefit of having free will but with parameters within which it is beneficial? Outside of those parameters, deciding for ourselves what is good and evil has led us to where we are now. God is making sure that we never have reasons to question his Sovereignty over us, ever again. Only he can undo what we have done to ourselves.

What is he likely to wind up believing? That Jesus loves him? That Jesus is strong enough to stop the hurt? Or that none of that seems to be true?

You can nurse the hurt and keep reliving your pain, or you can understand why it happened and where God is going with this world, and move on with your life. God will not force you to be part of his eternal plans for his Universe, but we can be, and we have yet to see what his plans are. I see them as nothing but exciting and I don't think we have long to wait for him to bring the curtain down on this world and bring in the rule of his Kingdom....we have never tried it, and let's face it....it can't be worse that what we have already experienced and I believe that it will be better than we could ever have imagined.