Don't go for a career in science

[ScottySatan]

For every one terminal level job (that's faculty for academia) there are hundreds of applicants. Research grants only fund 5% of faculty applicants. Many of those that do get funded get 1/2 of what they ask for.

Most scientists are spending their career in non-terminal positions like postdocs. These are temporary positions. It's not that bad, that job is easy to get, but no one thought this is how they would be spending their career. They pay is not very good, especially considering your excuisite expertise. The hours are long. Stress levels are high. You will not be famous. The most illustrious scientists in the world are completely unknown outside of their field.

If you are very smart and hard working, you may try if you really want it. Keep in mind that the smartest people in high school are average in college. The smartest in college are average in grad school. The most brilliant phds make up those hundreds of applicants for every one faculty job. The rest, by then, know enough to not bother trying. If you are in high school or college now, it is unlikely that you know how you measure up to the pros.

If you are that good, then you have to follow a specific formula for what your personality must be, where you go to study, who you work with, and what project you chose to work on. Deviation form the formula will shoot the best of you down. You have to figure all of that out before you chose your thesis lab, at the latest. Humbly, I only got it about 80% right by that time. Therefore, realistically, I think I can only be up to 80% of that Oxford professor or chief scientist at GSK that I dreamt of becoming.

If you say you want to be a science professor, you might as well say you want to be a pro footballer, famous actor, or rock star. your chances are about the same.

Don't go into science. Instead, go into something that your society will always need and can't outsource: auto mechanic, bartender, prostitute, soldier.

-Dr. Satan

 

[Breathe]

Don't go into science. Instead, go into something that your society will always need and can't outsource: auto mechanic, bartender, prostitute, soldier.

-Dr. Satan

Go into prostitution?

 

[Oneatatime]

I'm feeling ya

After graduation I quickly realised that I just needed to get any job because holding out for a science job meant being unemployed for some time. It also doesn't help that my particular area has limited opporunities and I would need to go abroad for work which isn't really an option at the moment.

Most employers also expect at least two years experience before they'll even consider you. How you get two years work experience before they'll hire you I'm not entirely sure since doing unpaid internships doesn't pay the bills.

 

[ScottySatan]

Go into prostitution?

That was kind of a joke, but some folks seem to enjoy it.

 

[ScottySatan]

How you get two years work experience before they'll hire you I'm not entirely sure since doing unpaid internships doesn't pay the bills.

You can work as a technician in an academic lab.

 

[Breathe]

but some folks seem to enjoy it.

Heh.

 

[Panda]

You're right become an Engineer. Plenty of job opportunities that pay very well indeed.

 

[Willamena]

Go into prostitution?

Or Admin Support.


(Please don't joke that it's the same thing, that one's done to death.)

 

[ScottySatan]

You're right become an Engineer. Plenty of job opportunities that pay very well indeed.

Is it easy to find an engineering job? does it depend on what kind?

 

[Panda]

Is it easy to find an engineering job? does it depend on what kind?

Well my field (electrical engineering) is very short of qualified people. I think around 20% of all electrical engineering firms can not fill the positions they have due to a lack of qualified (graduates with at least a BEng). I know mechanical and chemical engineering are also facing shortages. Once I finish uni it is perfectly realistic for me to be looking at maybe 3 or 4 offers by round about Christmas time before I graduate.

 

[Revoltingest]

You're right become an Engineer. Plenty of job opportunities that pay very well indeed.

You tell'm bub! Applied sciences is in demand, good work & fun too.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is it easy to find an engineering job? does it depend on what kind?

Civil engineers (my discipline) is in demand right now. The impending retirement of the baby boomers is leaving us with a real shortfall.

 

[Panda]

Civil engineers (my discipline) is in demand right now. The impending retirement of the baby boomers is leaving us with a real shortfall.

At my work there is a massive age gap. Everyone is either in there late 40s or 50 or in there 20s. Lack of recruitment for so long has screwed a lot of engineering firms over. Sounds like similar thing happened over there.

 

[Penumbra]

You're right become an Engineer. Plenty of job opportunities that pay very well indeed.

Definitely. I read in a tech magazine the other day that the UK has a shortage of electronics engineers.

Is it easy to find an engineering job? does it depend on what kind?

Depends on where you are, what kind of engineering you study, and how your grades and work experience compare to other graduates. I found a job fairly easily in the bottom of the recession, but there was a bit of luck involved. I know a guy who had slightly lower than average grades and mediocre work experience, and he found a great job too. Most engineering students I know from college found jobs.

Engineers often have lower unemployment than the general working population over the long term in my country, the US, but in times of high unemployment, engineers have relatively high unemployment as well.

 

[lunamoth]

For every one terminal level job (that's faculty for academia) there are hundreds of applicants. Research grants only fund 5% of faculty applicants. Many of those that do get funded get 1/2 of what they ask for.

Most scientists are spending their career in non-terminal positions like postdocs. These are temporary positions. It's not that bad, that job is easy to get, but no one thought this is how they would be spending their career. They pay is not very good, especially considering your excuisite expertise. The hours are long. Stress levels are high. You will not be famous. The most illustrious scientists in the world are completely unknown outside of their field.

If you are very smart and hard working, you may try if you really want it. Keep in mind that the smartest people in high school are average in college. The smartest in college are average in grad school. The most brilliant phds make up those hundreds of applicants for every one faculty job. The rest, by then, know enough to not bother trying. If you are in high school or college now, it is unlikely that you know how you measure up to the pros.

If you are that good, then you have to follow a specific formula for what your personality must be, where you go to study, who you work with, and what project you chose to work on. Deviation form the formula will shoot the best of you down. You have to figure all of that out before you chose your thesis lab, at the latest. Humbly, I only got it about 80% right by that time. Therefore, realistically, I think I can only be up to 80% of that Oxford professor or chief scientist at GSK that I dreamt of becoming.

If you say you want to be a science professor, you might as well say you want to be a pro footballer, famous actor, or rock star. your chances are about the same.

Don't go into science. Instead, go into something that your society will always need and can't outsource: auto mechanic, bartender, prostitute, soldier.

-Dr. Satan

Your post made me chuckle. Must be one of those cynical days of your post-doc, right?

You don't need to aim for a professorship in academia to be successful in science. If you want to go for the Ph.D. there are also many great jobs, that pay more, in industry. Or at least that is the way it is in biology.

Getting a masters and working at the Associates level is also a good option. It probably would not pay as well as other jobs where similar experience and education is required, but hey, you do it because you love it, right?

If you can land a technician job, even just going for the BS in science is not a bad deal. There are jobs everywhere for people with skills in molecular biology, biochemistry, and analytical chemistry.

But, one thing you are right about. You do not get a Ph.D. in biology or physics unless you are ready to climb that pyramid. Even full professorships pay very poorly compared to most other fields. Industry jobs in pharmaceuticals, agrochem, and medical research are exceptions. I'm not sure, but I would imagine that chemists in industry are in demand and can make a good living.

Cheer up! There are options.

 

[ScottySatan]

Your post made me chuckle. Must be one of those cynical days of your post-doc, right?

You don't need to aim for a professorship in academia to be successful in science. If you want to go for the Ph.D. there are also many great jobs, that pay more, in industry. Or at least that is the way it is in biology.

Getting a masters and working at the Associates level is also a good option. It probably would not pay as well as other jobs where similar experience and education is required, but hey, you do it because you love it, right?

If you can land a technician job, even just going for the BS in science is not a bad deal. There are jobs everywhere for people with skills in molecular biology, biochemistry, and analytical chemistry.

But, one thing you are right about. You do not get a Ph.D. in biology or physics unless you are ready to climb that pyramid. Even full professorships pay very poorly compared to most other fields. Industry jobs in pharmaceuticals, agrochem, and medical research are exceptions. I'm not sure, but I would imagine that chemists in industry are in demand and can make a good living.

Cheer up! There are options.

Yes, that's exactly what it was. The thing with industry is that they don't seem to want to hire the type of scientist that everyone is: a cell biologist. They all want biochemists and chemists. Not only that, there seem to be two jobs available. The job for the guy with the bachelors and no experience. or a job for a guy with a phd and lots of industry experience. a postdoc or recent phd only qualifies for the bottom job. I have images of myself in an industry job washing glassware and packing tip boxes for $10/hr. Any idea about what job seciruty is like in government and industry?

 

[lunamoth]

Yes, that's exactly what it was. The thing with industry is that they don't seem to want to hire the type of scientist that everyone is: a cell biologist. They all want biochemists and chemists. Not only that, there seem to be two jobs available. The job for the guy with the bachelors and no experience. or a job for a guy with a phd and lots of industry experience. a postdoc or recent phd only qualifies for the bottom job. I have images of myself in an industry job washing glassware and packing tip boxes for $10/hr. Any idea about what job seciruty is like in government and industry?

Hi Scotty, it can be disheartening and I certainly don't mean to make light of the situation. I remember the same frustration over the pyramid. It's doubly hard when you realize that most of those on the top in academia couldn't stay there without massive post- doc labor. It is all important to choose a good lab for a post-doc.

The only security in any job today is to be superb at what you do and get results (grant money, and publications so you can get more grant money). In industry you need to be showing results that affect the bottom line, but the time-frame is typically much shorter for results than in academia (like six months). That is at the scientist level. Research associates and techs have better security in industry.

In medical research there are jobs for cell biologists, especially with mol bio and cell culture skills. Government jobs can actually be a good way to go. USDA jobs pay well and tend to be more secure.

Around here, Denver area, research associate jobs pay better than $10/hr. I see many that pay $40k.

Good luck!

 

[lunamoth]

BTW, I saw your posts about evolution and abiogenesis and FWIIW I agree that people tend to make an artificial distinction between them. Guess they feel forced into this by creationists who like to point out how little we know about abiogenesis, but I think that arguing this point is just arguing from a point of weakness.

 

[ScottySatan]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to ***** about my own situation, I'm doing well.

I'm not the only one of this opinion about career outlook.

Robert Weinberg, the famous cancer biologist went on TV and said "don't go into science".

A guy I recently met who works for the NASA JPL said they're laying loads of people off and can't get funding for anything, including those things he said "we really needed".

People on grant review panels are telling their friends that they won't be getting any funding.

College lecturers are warning their undergraduates of a dire situation ahead.

For a little while at least, things are going to be very very tight. And if you decide you want to go to science, you may just end up being a phd paid to wash pyrex beakers or dinner plates.

 

[lunamoth]

Robert Weinberg, the famous cancer biologist went on TV and said "don't go into science".

Really? That is discouraging and a ****-poor way to prepare for the future of our world. Do you have a link to this program?