Don't be extreme

[Shakeel]

There are two extremes corrupting religion.

1. Ignoring God's mercy and only talking about His punishment.

2. Ignoring God's punishment and only talking about His mercy.

The latter is more prevalent and some Christians, such a JWs, go to great lengths trying to make you believe the Bible doesn't even talk about hell. The extent of the delusion is saddening.

In Islam the prevalent issue is not in ignoring God's punishment in the hereafter, but in ignoring His law in this world and pretending it is either forged, invalid or no longer applies.

 

[stvdv]

There are two extremes corrupting religion.

1. Ignoring God's mercy and only talking about His punishment.

2. Ignoring God's punishment and only talking about His mercy.

My God is not punishing me
My God only loves me

 

[Shakeel]

My God is not punishing me
My God only loves me

The two aren't opposites. Someone could only love you and still punish you.

 

[stvdv]

The two aren't opposites. Someone could only love you and still punish you.

Yes, someone could, but as I told you "My God is not someone who would punish me"

 

[danieldemol]

The two aren't opposites. Someone could only love you and still punish you.

They could only love you and dish out reformatory style punishments appropriate to the crimes, however if they burn you forever they are not loving you in my opinion.

 

[Shakeel]

They could only love you and dish out reformatory style punishments appropriate to the crimes, however if they burn you forever they are not loving you in my opinion.

It is an appropriate punishment. You just don't understand the severity of the sins.

 

[SalixIncendium]

There are two extremes corrupting religion.

1. Ignoring God's mercy and only talking about His punishment.

2. Ignoring God's punishment and only talking about His mercy.

The latter is more prevalent and some Christians, such a JWs, go to great lengths trying to make you believe the Bible doesn't even talk about hell. The extent of the delusion is saddening.

In Islam the prevalent issue is not in ignoring God's punishment in the hereafter, but in ignoring His law in this world and pretending it is either forged, invalid or no longer applies.

There is a third. People thinking they have the right to impose their assessment of religion on others.

You leave me to my own delusions, and I'll leave you to yours.

 

[Shakeel]

There is a third. People thinking they have the right to impose their assessment of religion on others.

You leave me to my own delusions, and I'll leave you to yours.

That would then be a fourth extreme. Even if you don't care about my afterlife, I care about yours.

 

[SalixIncendium]

That would then be a fourth extreme. Even if you don't care about my afterlife, I care about yours.

If this was, indeed, the case, you'd likely to be less inclined to place barriers in another's path to it.

Just because one doesn't share in your understandings or beliefs doesn't make one less correct or more "corrupt" than you.

 

[Shakeel]

If this was, indeed, the case, you'd likely to be less inclined to place barriers in another's path to it.

Just because one doesn't share in your understandings or beliefs doesn't make one less correct or more "corrupt" than you.

Yes it does. It is impossible for two opposing things to be true at the same time. The earth can't be both flat and round at the same time.

I am talking about the corruption of religion. If someone spreads lies about the scriptures, they are corrupters.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yes it does. It is impossible for two opposing things to be true at the same time. The earth can't be both flat and round at the same time.

Unless you one can provide objective evidence that one opposing thing is more true than another, squabbling over which is true is an exercise in futility.

I am talking about the corruption of religion. If someone spreads lies about the scriptures, they are corrupters.

What if the scripture "lies?" Does scripture trump experience?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The two aren't opposites. Someone could only love you and still punish you.

The punishment should fit an actual crime. Not loving God isn't a crime. Punishment for not loving God doesn't fit.

What it does is show the message of fear and subordination. No parent I would hope would not want their child to be a slave and punish them because they don't love them. Hurt, yes. Punish,no.

Their god sends mixed messages.

Maybe this god should show mercy to all. Also, so far I've noticed on RF, JW seems to think it's our fault for not wanting to be with their god. They support the consequence god has chosen.

Why would anyone agree with god to set up a means humans can kill themselves?

The whole scenario doesn't make sense.

 

[Shakeel]

Unless you one can provide objective evidence that one opposing thing is more true than another, squabbling over which is true is an exercise in futility.

The Qur'an offers objective evidence as does human nature and all creation.

That is, if you meant evidence of there being afterlife or God etc.

If you mean evidence that there is hell where people will be punished, for that there is evidence in the scripture.

The premise of my op is that it is perfectly clear from the Bible and the Quran that some people will be punished in the afterlife, in hell, but some people refuse to acknowledge it, even though it is clear intellectual dishonesty.

What if the scripture "lies?" Does scripture trump experience?

Do you have experience of the afterlife or something? Yes, the scripture should trump experience. Why? Because a person claims to believe in it.

For me with the Qur'an, I know it doesn't lie. I also know the Bible isn't authentic, however, I expect any proper Christian to either believe the Bible or admit it isn't reliable, rather than insisting hell doesn't mean hell and death doesn't mean death and soul doesn't mean soul, etc.

 

[sun rise]

I don't believe in a bipolar God who rewards and punishes.

 

[Dogknox20]

The Qur'an offers objective evidence as does human nature and all creation.

That is, if you meant evidence of there being afterlife or God etc.

If you mean evidence that there is hell where people will be punished, for that there is evidence in the scripture.

The premise of my op is that it is perfectly clear from the Bible and the Quran that some people will be punished in the afterlife, in hell, but some people refuse to acknowledge it, even though it is clear intellectual dishonesty. Do you have experience of the afterlife or something? Yes, the scripture should trump experience. Why? Because a person claims to believe in it.

For me with the Qur'an, I know it doesn't lie. I also know the Bible isn't authentic, however, I expect any proper Christian to either believe the Bible or admit it isn't reliable, rather than insisting hell doesn't mean hell and death doesn't mean death and soul doesn't mean soul, etc.

.
."You Know the Qur'an doesn't lie"??!!
.
Shakeel Goods to meet you....
I reply: Jesus the "Man God" took our place in death! FACT: No one can die twice; You can't even kill a mangy stinky no good for nothing dog two times, only once!
History lesson....Adam the first PERFECT Man sinned, he corrupted God' perfect creation! Because creation was corrupted (Not Perfect) we all of Adams descendants are born "not perfect"! No one can enter Paradise with sin; Adam was kicked out of Paradise because of his crime against "LOVE"! Man (us) needed a second perfect man to correct Adams Sin!
Shakeel Because no man can be born perfect (all are born corrupted) man was stuck between a rock and a hard spot! That is....

Shakeel that is until Jesus was born.. God is PERFECT! No man is perfect only God is perfect!!!! Jesus the "Man/God" Jesus the second PERFECT man to be born died on the cross for us out of Perfect love he took our spot in death!!!! Because....

Shakeel because Jesus was "Without Sin" after he died Jesus sprang out of the grave as a cork might rise up in a pool of water... Death could not hold Jesus in the grave because he was without sin!

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Christians Unite ourselves with the risen "Can't die a second time" Jesus in Baptism! Being IMMERSED into the risen Body of Jesus we also rise to new life...... "I can't die if I remain IN the Body of the risen Jesus!"

 

[ADigitalArtist]

The belief in a place of eternal torment is already an extreme belief. One that is inherently unjust and inhumane.

 

[Sirona]

The latter is more prevalent and some Christians, such a JWs, go to great lengths trying to make you believe the Bible doesn't even talk about hell.

You might consider getting a better knowledge of Christian denominations before judging them. It's true, JWs don't believe in hell but they do believe in the Battle of Armageddon instead. https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/battle-of-armageddon/

 

[Shakeel]

that is until Jesus was born.. God is PERFECT! No man is perfect only God is perfect!!!! J

What made Jesus perfect? He didn't even deign to be called good.

No one can die twice;

So all those people mentioned in the Bible who were resurrected are still alive today?

Adam the first PERFECT Man sinned, he corrupted God' perfect creation! Because creation was corrupted (Not Perfect) we all of Adams descendants are born "not perfect"!

Clearly he wasn't perfect. Perfection isn't an attribute of man. In other words, God created him imperfect and with the intention that Adam would sin.

Adam was kicked out of Paradise because of his crime against "LOVE"!

It was for disobeying God. I don't know why you Christians always want to put the word love everywhere.

And how do you live in the body of the risen Christ? You know, many poeple and things were anointed in the Bible. Christ's anointment was no different. So why do you call him christ? And his actual name was not Jesus. That is a distortion of his actual name that you made to make him seem special.

 

[Shakeel]

The punishment should fit an actual crime. Not loving God isn't a crime. Punishment for not loving God doesn't fit.

Indeed. Why do you presume the sin is not loving God, per se? You are not one to decide what fits according to God because you're not God.

With logic one can argue with that, but I don't think that's necessary. I think you believe parts of the bible so we should go by what the Bible says.

What it does is show the message of fear and subordination. No parent I would hope would not want their child to be a slave and punish them because they don't love them. Hurt, yes. Punish,no.

Parents punish their children all the time for not obeying them. And people do punish people for not loving them as well.

Maybe this god should show mercy to all

This God? God does show mercy to all. Don't you have a home and food and water? Don't you have a brain and eyes and ears? Don't you have a family and have you not recieved the message?

Why would anyone agree with god to set up a means humans can kill them

I don't understand that one.

 

[Dogknox20]

What made Jesus perfect? He didn't even deign to be called good.

So all those people mentioned in the Bible who were resurrected are still alive today?

Clearly he wasn't perfect. Perfection isn't an attribute of man. In other words, God created him imperfect and with the intention that Adam would sin.

It was for disobeying God. I don't know why you Christians always want to put the word love everywhere.

And how do you live in the body of the risen Christ? You know, many poeple and things were anointed in the Bible. Christ's anointment was no different. So why do you call him christ? And his actual name was not Jesus. That is a distortion of his actual name that you made to make him seem special.

What made Jesus perfect?

Answer.. Jesus is GOD.. God is perfect!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You asked...So all those people mentioned in the Bible who were resurrected are still alive today?
Answer is YES... They live forever in Heaven! With Jesus the God/Man!

You asked...Clearly he wasn't perfect. Perfection isn't an attribute of man. In other words, God created him imperfect and with the intention that Adam would sin.
Answer is.. You are WRONG! Clearly Jesus is perfect!
Matthew 1:23
“The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” (which means “God with us”).
&
John 14:11
Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

You asked...It was for disobeying God. I don't know why you Christians always want to put the word love everywhere.
ANSWER:
1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

You asked...And how do you live in the body of the risen Christ?
ANSWER
Romans 6:3
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

You asked... You know, many poeple and things were anointed in the Bible. Christ's anointment was no different. So why do you call him christ? And his actual name was not Jesus. That is a distortion of his actual name that you made to make him seem special.
ANSWER is... Your OPPINION is just that yours! "Jesus is GOD so he is very special! Jesus "The Word made Flesh" lived with us On Earth as a MAN!
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.