Donald Trump is digging his own grave

[Jose Fly]

Aaaaahhhh, democrats ARE comnunists!

How? What specific communist policy are Democrats advocating?

 

[Prometheus85]

Holy ****! The sheer foolishness of all of this!

Respect for diversity!? Really? They have the least amount of respect for diversity!

And tax fairness!? You call punishing the wealthy fair!?

 

[Jollybear]

Your questions have been answered. As to the comparison between Trump and Biden, Biden performed an open and legal act where aid was used for leverage. Trump performed an illegal and covert act where aid was used as leverage.

Your using the words "legal" and "illegal" as if they mean anything of substance to your argument and they do not. Your simply hiding behind these words as a wall. Your not using them in any substanciated sense.

Once you strip away these words, all your left with is the democrats preaching a double standard. Pure and simple.

Also, for something to be illegal, it has to harm something. I already showed that no harm was done in this call in any way. Ukraine got its aid. America isnt harmed. It still has freedom to vote for biden if they want. The american people have a right to know about biden as well.

Also, id like to say something else about this legal, illegal issue. Just because something is a law, dont make it in all cases an intelligent law. Just want to say that. Its important. In otherwords, sometimes the making of a law is immoral and oppresive.

Let's look at two people each of them shot a deer. The first got a license, went out during the daytime, and shot a deer. The second did not get a license (making his activity illegal) went out at night (to keep it secret) and used a flashlight to "shine" the deer. He then shoots that deer breaking several laws. Do you see the difference between the two? If you see the difference there you should be able to see the difference between what Trump did and what Biden did. Except that Trump "missed the deer". He did not get what he asked for. But let's go back to our hunters again. The first hunter legally shot a deer. The second one had no license, went out a night, used a flashlight so the he could see the deer's eyes and to freeze it in place, and then shot at it but missed. Guess what? That is still illegal. Incompetence in fully breaking the law does not make the attempt legal. Trump is still wrong even though he did not get what he asked for. It was still illegal. It was an attempted quid pro quo.

Ya, nice try, but talking analogies isnt going to work in this subject because wer debating too many specific nuances. Annalogies are fine when trying to illucidate a point, nothing more.

But, for the record, despite my understanding of why deer hunting at night with a flashlight is illegal, i still disagree with that law. I understand it though, its to keep it a sport and to prevent accidents.

But, hunting in my perpective isnt about sport, its about food.

 

[Jollybear]

Your defense
Then: No quid pro quo. Perfect call. Trump just asked for a favor.
Now: Of course quid pro quo. Get over it.

At this point, @Jollybear just admit you don’t know what your talking about.

Its you that doesn't know what hes talking about because you still havent dealt with the double standard and no one else has either. And no one can because there (you) are wrong.

@Jollybear claims that he’s not a trump supporter. Either he’s lying to himself or he’s been brainwashed by right wing media.

Niether is true. Im not committed to trump, hes merely a man, and men are flawed and despite alot of his ideas i hold to, i dont hold to every single last dot he believes. He most certainly is better then all those democrat candidates.

Also, im not brainwashed by the right wing media, i AGREE with the right wing media and i do NOT agree with the left.

How do you know your not brainwashed by the left?

In fact, im very confident you are brainwashed by the left because i KNOW the left is logically UNSOUND.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Your using the words "legal" and "illegal" as if they mean anything of substance to your argument and they do not. Your simply hiding behind these words as a wall. Your not using them in any substanciated sense.

Once you strip away these words, all your left with is the democrats preaching a double standard. Pure and simple.

Also, for something to be illegal, it has to harm something. I already showed that no harm was done in this call in any way. Ukraine got its aid. America isnt harmed. It still has freedom to vote for biden if they want. The american people have a right to know about biden as well.

Also, id like to say something else about this legal, illegal issue. Just because something is a law, dont make it in all cases an intelligent law. Just want to say that. Its important. In otherwords, sometimes the making of a law is immoral and oppresive.



Ya, nice try, but talking analogies isnt going to work in this subject because wer debating too many specific nuances. Annalogies are fine when trying to illucidate a point, nothing more.

But, for the record, despite my understanding of why deer hunting at night with a flashlight is illegal, i still disagree with that law. I understand it though, its to keep it a sport and to prevent accidents.

But, hunting in my perpective isnt about sport, its about food.

LOL! You have to be kidding me. By your standards going to the store and buying goods is the same as going to the store and shop lifting. In both cases you come home with food.

 

[Jollybear]

How? What specific communist policy are Democrats advocating?

Ok. Where to begin. It isnt productive or time efficient to list them all and discuss them all in one post. So, let me throw out an example.

Wealth distribution. To create equality. Thats an example.

 

[Jollybear]

LOL! You have to be kidding me. By your standards going to the store and buying goods is the same as going to the store and shop lifting. In both cases you come home with food.

Wrong! You misrepresented everything i told you! You twisted what i said in order to get a punch point in. All due to the fact you got NOTHING better to respond with. And why dont you have anything better then a misrepresented response? Because your WRONG!

 

[Subduction Zone]

Wrong! You misrepresented everything i told you! You twisted what i said in order to get a punch point in. All due to the fact you got NOTHING better to respond with. And why dont you have anything better then a misrepresented response? Because your WRONG!

Nope, you screwed up big time. Trump's act was immoral and illegal. Biden's was neither.

 

[Jose Fly]

Wealth distribution. To create equality. Thats an example.

Can you cite an example of a Democrat calling for equal wealth distribution?

 

[Jollybear]

View attachment 33696

That isnt an argument and none arguments i dont take serious.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Aaaaahhhh, democrats ARE comnunists!

Wow. Just wow.

 

[SkepticThinker]

LOL! You have to be kidding me. By your standards going to the store and buying goods is the same as going to the store and shop lifting. In both cases you come home with food.

Shopping at the supermarket isn't about paying for stuff, it's about food.

I disagree with laws that say I can't steal food.

 

[Jollybear]

Can you cite an example of a Democrat calling for equal wealth distribution?

Heres examples of the democrates and there candidates plans for equal distribution.

What 2020 Democrats are saying about economic inequality

Also if you look at the "communist party USA" website and there ideas, they are eerily similar to the democrate party. There website is here >

About Us

Wow. Just wow.

Wow doesent help your false ideas.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Wow doesent help your false ideas.

Nor yours.

Democrats aren't communists. That's funny though, I guess.

 

[Jose Fly]

Heres examples of the democrates and there candidates plans for equal distribution.

What 2020 Democrats are saying about economic inequality

Where? I see no call for equal distribution of wealth.

 

[Shad]

It's amazing to watch, isn't it? The true believers will never back away from this President no matter what. So they'll put forth whatever argument they need at any given time, with no thought at all as to what they said before.

You know there are legal and illegal version of quid pro quo right? Biden's was illegal while Trump never made any quid pro quo action.

 

[Jose Fly]

You know there are legal and illegal version of quid pro quo right? Biden's was illegal

Before we get into your assertion about his actions being illegal, we need to establish a few things...

Do you acknowledge that J. Biden's push for Ukraine to fire the prosecutor was done with the support of the EU, IMF, and both Democratic and Republican congressmen?

Do you acknowledge that the primary reason for pressuring Ukraine to oust the prosecutor was because he wasn't investigating corruption?

while Trump never made any quid pro quo action.

That is entirely dependent on arguing that when the Ukrainian President says "We're ready to buy some javelins" and Trump immediately responds "I need a favor though", there is absolutely no connection between those two statements.

As I explained to you before, that argument is so stupid, I will not engage it.

 

[Shad]

Before we get into your assertion about his actions being illegal, we need to establish a few things...

Do you acknowledge that J. Biden's push for Ukraine to fire the prosecutor was done with the support of the EU, IMF, and both Democratic and Republican congressmen?

Irrelevant. VP does not have the authority to cancel or withhold foreign aid.

Do you acknowledge that the primary reason for pressuring Ukraine to oust the prosecutor was because he wasn't investigating corruption?

Nope. Besides Biden's gaff didn't include that.

That is entirely dependent on arguing that when the Ukrainian President says "We're ready to buy some javelins" and Trump immediately responds "I need a favor though", there is absolutely no connection between those two statements.

There isn't a connection.

Heard of changing topics?

As I explained to you before, that argument is so stupid, I will not engage it.

All you are doing is refusing to engage because someone does not agree with you so you make excuses and run away while declaring victory. Yawn

 

[Jose Fly]

Irrelevant. VP does not have the authority to cancel or withhold foreign aid.

You're dodging. We can discuss whether or not he had the authority to pressure Ukraine in a bit, but I need you to let me know if you acknowledge that he did so with the backing and support of the EU, IMF, and congressmen from both parties.

Nope.

So do you think the Republicans in Congress who supported Biden's actions were lying? Was the EU and IMF in on the lie as well?

There isn't a connection.

Heard of changing topics?

All you are doing is refusing to engage because someone does not agree with you so you make excuses and run away while declaring victory. Yawn

Some things fall into the category of "too stupid to argue over". The notion that there's absolutely no connection between "We're ready to buy javelins" and "I need a favor though" definitely falls into that category.

 

[Prometheus85]

Its you that doesn't know what hes talking about because you still havent dealt with the double standard and no one else has either. And no one can because there (you) are wrong.



Niether is true. Im not committed to trump, hes merely a man, and men are flawed and despite alot of his ideas i hold to, i dont hold to every single last dot he believes. He most certainly is better then all those democrat candidates.

Also, im not brainwashed by the right wing media, i AGREE with the right wing media and i do NOT agree with the left.

How do you know your not brainwashed by the left?

In fact, im very confident you are brainwashed by the left because i KNOW the left is logically UNSOUND.

let’s rewind shall we. In the beginning of this thread you said there was no quid pro quo. Turns out there was a quid pro qou. And instead of correcting yourself u dismissed the quid pro quo as not mattering anymore and that there are good ones and bad ones.

It's a problem when the context of the quid is different from the context of the quo. For example, a personal courtesy shouldnt be exchanged with a professional one

The president of Ukraine was asking for military aid from the United States to help fight against Russia back separatists. Which is a professional request. Donald Trump asked the president of Ukraine to dig up dirt on his political opponent in exchange for that military aid which is a personal request that benefited nobody but trump. You can see the quid pro is as clear as day. Trump withhold military aid, appropriated by congress, unless the president of Ukraine falsify evidence against his main political rival. You don’t know what your talking about.

And you still continue to say there is a double standard and have yet provided evidence of this so called double standard. Either provide evidence of this so called double standard or shut up.

You claim your not trump supporter but you continue to bend over backwards to defend him even in the face of evidence and in extreme cases basic FACTS! also everything you post is a right wing talking point, the sources that u do manage to provide is almost always right wing propaganda. You call democrats communist, you call anyone that’s disagrees with your view points communist, you say things like income equality is communism, equality is communism, and taxing the rich is punishing them. All of that is straight out of the right wing playbook. Which led me to the conclusion that your brainwashed by right media.

I know I’m not brainwashed because im able to entertain a thought without accepting it.