Dogs and Pigs are unclean means what??

[InvestigateTruth]

In Abrahamic religions such as Islam, and even perhaps Biblical Faiths, it is said Dogs are unclean. In Islam it is also said pigs are unclean.

What I am debating is, when the Prophets, such as Muhammad have said dogs or pigs are unclean, they actually did not mean the animals. They were talking figuratively and by this, they meant the Religious Leaders of their time, and future. The term Dog or Pig, in this case was applicable to the Religion Leaders who were opposing the new Revelation and the new Prophet, as well as the Religious Leaders who were to appear in future ages, but due to a wisdom they did not say it explicitly. Insread they said Dogs and Pigs are unclean, and the actual intention was understood by their close companions. They understood the Prophet was speaking of the Religious Leaders, and not the animal. But most people misunderstood that.
In Islam it is also said, do not eat pork. This is also symbolic.
This is similar to when Jesus said eat my flash and blood. He did not mean literally eat His body, but He was speaking of His teachings which was like food for spirit. Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

 

[Altfish]

Our dog was certainly unclean today; went swimming in a local brook and got stuck in the mud.

 

[Nimos]

In Abrahamic religions such as Islam, and even perhaps Biblical Faiths, it is said Dogs are unclean. In Islam it is also said pigs are unclean.

What I am debating is, when the Prophets, such as Muhammad have said dogs or pigs are unclean, they actually did not mean the animals. They were talking figuratively and by this, they meant the Religious Leaders of their time, and future. The term Dog or Pig, in this case was applicable to the Religion Leaders who were opposing the new Revelation and the new Prophet, as well as the Religious Leaders who were to appear in future ages, but due to a wisdom they did not say it explicitly. Insread they said Dogs and Pigs are unclean, and the actual intention was understood by their close companions. They understood the Prophet was speaking of the Religious Leaders, and not the animal. But most people misunderstood that.
In Islam it is also said, do not eat pork. This is also symbolic.
This is similar to when Jesus said eat my flash and blood. He did not mean literally eat His body, but He was speaking of His teachings which was like food for spirit. Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

Might have been, don't know that much about that

However a pig is actually a very clean animal, its only because it is kept in captivity that they appear unclean.

Contrary to popular belief, pigs are unable to sweat; instead, they wallow in mud to cool down. Their mucky appearance gives pigs an undeserved reputation for slovenliness. In fact, pigs are some of the cleanest animals around, refusing to excrete anywhere near their living or eating areas when given a choice.

 

[paradox]

In ancient times, old testament, "unclean" means "impurity", there are several different impure categorizations of things such as diseases, discharges of bodily fluids, touching something dead, eating unclean animals etc.
ex. Numbers 5:2 says that touching the dead makes you unclean.

unclean, or becoming unclean primarily means not fitted to stand before God ex. to visit sacred place, one who is unclean must do certain things ex. ritual. to be pure again.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

In Abrahamic religions such as Islam, and even perhaps Biblical Faiths, it is said Dogs are unclean. In Islam it is also said pigs are unclean.

What I am debating is, when the Prophets, such as Muhammad have said dogs or pigs are unclean, they actually did not mean the animals. They were talking figuratively and by this, they meant the Religious Leaders of their time, and future. The term Dog or Pig, in this case was applicable to the Religion Leaders who were opposing the new Revelation and the new Prophet, as well as the Religious Leaders who were to appear in future ages, but due to a wisdom they did not say it explicitly. Insread they said Dogs and Pigs are unclean, and the actual intention was understood by their close companions. They understood the Prophet was speaking of the Religious Leaders, and not the animal. But most people misunderstood that.
In Islam it is also said, do not eat pork. This is also symbolic.
This is similar to when Jesus said eat my flash and blood. He did not mean literally eat His body, but He was speaking of His teachings which was like food for spirit. Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

Which orifice did you pull this out of?

 

[Nimos]

In ancient times, old testament, "unclean" means "impurity", there are several different impure categorizations of things such as diseases, discharges of bodily fluids, touching something dead, eating unclean animals etc.
ex. Numbers 5:2 says that touching the dead makes you unclean.

unclean, or becoming unclean primarily means not fitted to stand before God ex. to visit sacred place, one who is unclean must do certain things ex. ritual. to be pure again.

Guess pigs don't go to heaven then...

Think about having been created by God, not having done anything wrong.. yet the all mighty creator point his finger at you and deem you unclean.

 

[paradox]

Guess pigs don't go to heaven then...

Think about having been created by God, not having done anything wrong.. yet the all mighty creator point his finger at you and deem you unclean.

Yes, according to the law, that's why Jesus set us free from the law - "a joke of slavery"
Galatians 5:1

However one can still be "impure" or "unclean", but the meaning is spiritual purity rather than physical:
Revelation 21:27

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Pigs and dogs are both very intelligent and friendly. They're also more clean than many humans.

 

[1213]

...Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

In Bible it is literally about eating pork that is not allowed. I don't think Bible gives exact answer why so, but I believe there is a good reason for it.

 

[Nimos]

Yes, according to the law, that's why Jesus set us free from the law - "a joke of slavery"
Galatians 5:1

However one can still be "impure" or "unclean", but the meaning is spiritual purity rather than physical:
Revelation 21:27

So why are pigs considered unclean or causing people to become unclean in spirit? What do you think it is about pigs compared to a cow that makes them impure?

 

[danieldemol]

In Abrahamic religions such as Islam, and even perhaps Biblical Faiths, it is said Dogs are unclean. In Islam it is also said pigs are unclean.

What I am debating is, when the Prophets, such as Muhammad have said dogs or pigs are unclean, they actually did not mean the animals. They were talking figuratively and by this, they meant the Religious Leaders of their time, and future. The term Dog or Pig, in this case was applicable to the Religion Leaders who were opposing the new Revelation and the new Prophet, as well as the Religious Leaders who were to appear in future ages, but due to a wisdom they did not say it explicitly. Insread they said Dogs and Pigs are unclean, and the actual intention was understood by their close companions. They understood the Prophet was speaking of the Religious Leaders, and not the animal. But most people misunderstood that.
In Islam it is also said, do not eat pork. This is also symbolic.
This is similar to when Jesus said eat my flash and blood. He did not mean literally eat His body, but He was speaking of His teachings which was like food for spirit. Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

This makes no sense whatsoever.
To compare religious leaders as unclean to dogs and pigs makes no sense unless you thought or the people you were addressing thought dogs and pigs are literally unclean.

It would be like me saying- you are filthier than a freshly washed rose. Doesn't make sense because we don't view freshly washed roses as unclean.

Besides Jesus had the courage according to the dogmatic texts to outright accuse the religious leaders of being inwardly impure if I recall. So no point wrapping it all up in hidden metaphor after you have spelled it out openly.

In my opinion.

 

[MikeF]

In Abrahamic religions such as Islam, and even perhaps Biblical Faiths, it is said Dogs are unclean. In Islam it is also said pigs are unclean.

What I am debating is, when the Prophets, such as Muhammad have said dogs or pigs are unclean, they actually did not mean the animals. They were talking figuratively and by this, they meant the Religious Leaders of their time, and future. The term Dog or Pig, in this case was applicable to the Religion Leaders who were opposing the new Revelation and the new Prophet, as well as the Religious Leaders who were to appear in future ages, but due to a wisdom they did not say it explicitly. Insread they said Dogs and Pigs are unclean, and the actual intention was understood by their close companions. They understood the Prophet was speaking of the Religious Leaders, and not the animal. But most people misunderstood that.
In Islam it is also said, do not eat pork. This is also symbolic.
This is similar to when Jesus said eat my flash and blood. He did not mean literally eat His body, but He was speaking of His teachings which was like food for spirit. Likewise when in Islam was said do not eat pork, it meant, do not eat the Religious Leaders flash and blood, or do not obtain your spiritual food from them, but get it directly from the Prophet.

Do you have examples of passages from Muhammad in which he refers to religious leaders metaphorically as unclean dogs and pigs? It would be interesting to see your hypothesis in context.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Gilmour used some effects on Pink Floyd's Animals.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In Bible it is literally about eating pork that is not allowed. I don't think Bible gives exact answer why so, but I believe there is a good reason for it.

It used to be that undercooked pork was a prime source for trichinosis. And without proper oven thermometers and the like, how did you know it was cooked enough, if you didn't over-cook it and make it not worth eating.

Thus, the ban made very good sense at the time! But that's the problem -- then isn't now. (Same thing when discussion "originalism" or 'textualism" in the US Constitution -- why would anybody suppose that the Founders could anticipate anything that could ever be known or understood?)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you have examples of passages from Muhammad in which he refers to religious leaders metaphorically as unclean dogs and pigs? It would be interesting to see your hypothesis in context.

I don't remember which one, but the dog thing in Islam comes from a Haddith. It's the same Haddith that makes Ramadan a very bad time for dogs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It used to be that undercooked pork was a prime source for trichinosis. And without proper oven thermometers and the like, how did you know it was cooked enough, if you didn't over-cook it and make it not worth eating.

Thus, the ban made very good sense at the time! But that's the problem -- then isn't now. (Same thing when discussion "originalism" or 'textualism" in the US Constitution -- why would anybody suppose that the Founders could anticipate anything that could ever be known or understood?)

Yup. This idea is also furthered by the prohibitions on shellfish and various poultry, along with perhaps the prohibitions against cooking meats together (even today it's not always a good idea to have a burger under well done because of it being ground from multiple animals). If they knew of Japanese cuisine, no doubt pufferfish would as well be a no. Because very much so it made sense back then. As far as meat goes, making jerky was a major method for preservation and bacteria control. It's not the best, and makes it understandable why high risk meats might be banned by some.
But today we don't have to wonder about why this person got sick after eating something. We know the anger or displeasure of god has nothing to do with it. We know it's an assortment of toxins and pathogens. We can't so much yet say as to why this person died and that person didn't, but we know what happened "behind the scenes."

 

[Ella S.]

To many ancient cultures prone to magical thinking and hyper-active agency detection, if someone gets sick after doing something, then it's because the gods were angry at them for doing it. If enough people get sick doing the same thing, obviously the gods have spoken and have declared that thing a taboo.

That sort of superstitious thinking wasn't just common back then, but people to this day still think along those lines. It isn't hard to see how these sorts of bans arose.

Technically, there might not even be a good reason for the original ban. Maybe there was just a string of coincidences that were misinterpreted. We may never know the genuine inspiration behind these concepts. It could have been as simple as "they look dirty so they probably aren't good for you," which is an example of sympathetic magic.

 

[Luchito Prays]

My understanding from the Bible is that when the God said He doesn't want offering from "that dog", he is referring to the previous verses when he mentioned the homosexual. The biblical God also refused the offering of the prostitute in the same context.

On the other hand, in the book of Revelation, Jesus telling the prophecies to John, told him that no adulterer, dog, etc. will enter to the new Jerusalem. Here again, the word "dog" is related to sexual behavior. In this case, by having Father and Son being in agreement with the same thought, in the book of Revelation it says that no homosexual will enter to the new Jerusalem.

 

[RestlessSoul]

So why are pigs considered unclean or causing people to become unclean in spirit? What do you think it is about pigs compared to a cow that makes them impure?

Pigs in some parts of the world will eat literally anything, including human faeces.

 

[paradox]

So why are pigs considered unclean or causing people to become unclean in spirit? What do you think it is about pigs compared to a cow that makes them impure?

According to the law ex. Leviticus 11:2-3 says

Any animal that has hoofs you may eat, provided it is cloven-footed and chews the cud

However this excludes a pig, according to Leviticus 11:7 and Deuteronomy 14:8 because a pig "does not chew the cud".

"does not chew the cud", is essential because we know that a pig would eat anything including human flesh which is not only disgusting to think about, but is also disgusting to each such animal.

I underlined the word "disgusting" because not only it is disgusting that a pig would east human flesh, but also God calls such animals disgusting ("abominable") according to Deuteronomy 14:3

You shall not eat any abominable thing.

Since God declares a pig disgusting that essentially makes one "unclean" if it eats port because such act makes one disgusting as well and unclean to God.

One should then perform purification ritual and offer sacrifice to God according to the law to make him self pure again.