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Does your religion say what the greater world needs or doesn't need, or is its wisdom inward

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I see two impulses that religion can have, an inward one, and one that wants to put ideas on a market. But which of these is really the greater virtue in a religion.

Many religions do become evangelical on some level, in other words they are concerned with selling something to the world. Implicit in this we might identify different possible issues, conflict with the natural 'other' on some level, and a supposed wielding of this thing we call 'truth.'

To invert that, a religion might also be inward. It doesn't then have anything to sell to the world as it isn't more 'right' than another spiritual style. It works on what is specifically within its own end-user. Ideally it might not say a single thing about the greater world, for doing so is to judge the world.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I see two impulses that religion can have, an inward one, and one that wants to put ideas on a market. But which of these is really the greater virtue in a religion.

Many religions do become evangelical on some level, in other words they are concerned with selling something to the world. Implicit in this we might identify different possible issues, conflict with the natural 'other' on some level, and a supposed wielding of this thing we call 'truth.'

To invert that, a religion might also be inward. It doesn't then have anything to sell to the world as it isn't more 'right' than another spiritual style. It works on what is specifically within its own end-user. Ideally it might not say a single thing about the greater world, for doing so is to judge the world.

The world does not need religion in any form but some people do. A percentage of those people try to impose their belief on others
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
If people want to believe in a god that is ok unless they try to force their belief on others.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
The world does not need religion in any form but some people do. A percentage of those people try to impose their belief on others

I think I would stop myself before even making that statement, if I was to be 'inward,' for whatever you believe, you said the phrase 'the world does not need'
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I see two impulses that religion can have, an inward one, and one that wants to put ideas on a market. But which of these is really the greater virtue in a religion.

Many religions do become evangelical on some level, in other words they are concerned with selling something to the world. Implicit in this we might identify different possible issues, conflict with the natural 'other' on some level, and a supposed wielding of this thing we call 'truth.'

To invert that, a religion might also be inward. It doesn't then have anything to sell to the world as it isn't more 'right' than another spiritual style. It works on what is specifically within its own end-user. Ideally it might not say a single thing about the greater world, for doing so is to judge the world.
E.g. Christianity is supposed to be inward development religion of individual enlightenment but...
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I think I would stop myself before even making that statement, if I was to be 'inward,' for whatever you believe, you said the phrase 'the world does not need'

And it doesnt, did it have religion for 4 billion years before humans came along and invented religion?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Maybe the Gnostic form, I'm not sure
" 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Heb5.
Christianity is Gnostic in core.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
And it doesnt, did it have religion for 4 billion years before humans came along and invented religion?

Depends on what religion even is, is it something labeled or is it something created. We seem to live in a world of things that are mostly labeled. But in declaring what we do or don't need, it doesn't seem much different to me than anything a religion could say about what the world needs
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Depends on what religion even is, is it something labeled or is it something created. We seem to live in a world of things that are mostly labeled. But in declaring what we do or don't need, it doesn't seem much different to me than anything a religion could say about what the world needs

That is no answer to the pre human world.

What is religion without humans? It would not even be a word
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
That is no answer to the pre human world.
Just as the prokaryote and eukaryote evolved to convert light and minerals into energy, humans tried to enclose ideas in the vacuole of their mind. You need to provide proof that religion isn't merely an idea that was captured by the human organism, something that was always there, like the sunlight that ancient organisms captured. You seem to argue that the mind generates ideas, rather than captures signals, like everything else that ever lived on earth
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Just as the prokaryote and eukaryote evolved to convert light and minerals into energy, humans tried to enclose ideas in the vacuole of their mind. You need to provide proof that religion isn't merely an idea that was captured by the human organism, something that was always there, like the sunlight that ancient organisms captured. You seem to argue that the mind generates ideas, rather than captures signals, like everything else that ever lived on earth

Prior to abiogenesis there was no mind to generate any idea
No other animal has religion.

And you seem to argue woo with nothing to back it up
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Prior to abiogenesis there was no mind to generate any idea
No other animal has religion.

And you seem to argue woo with nothing to back it up

Other animals aren't trying to capture that signal. You don't say to an octopus to pinpoint the location of a mosquito using echolocation, and you don't say to a bat to try and perceive religion. Why do you think minds 'generate' ideas as opposed to capturing signals? As we know, the most ancient organisms captured signals. Those are the organisms that built us
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Other animals aren't trying to capture that signal. You don't say to an octopus to pinpoint the location of a mosquito using echolocation, and you don't say to a bat to try and perceive religion. Why do you think minds 'generate' ideas as opposed to capturing signals? As we know, the most ancient organisms captured signals. Those are the organisms that built us

So said signal is a figment of your imagination.

Evidence of your claim that "As we know, the most ancient organisms captured signals". You made a statement, are you able to back it up with a valid, peer reviewed citation?
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
So said signal is a figment of your imagination.
As the bat uses echolocation, or the ants sense the will of a queen, or eukaryotes are stimulated to became hardier by becoming multi-cellular, or schools of fish or flocks of birds move in unision, all of this should allow you to predict that human brain isn't doing anything it wasn't designed to do. What you call a brain could easily also be called a net. Now some creatures on the earth have features to their net that you don't have, maybe they can smell or see better. The human net captures other things as well that would be otherwise hidden
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
As the bat uses echolocation, or the ants sense the will of a queen, or eukaryotes are stimulated to became hardier by becoming multi-cellular, or schools of fish or flocks of birds move in unision, all of this should allow you to predict that human brain isn't doing anything it wasn't designed to do. What you call a brain could easily also be called a net. Now some creatures on the earth have features to their net that you don't have, maybe they can smell or see better. The human net captures other things as well that would be otherwise hidden


And this opinion is what to do with a universal woo signal you were hyping???
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
And this opinion is what to do with a universal woo signal you were hyping???
Listen, if the gods wanted to reveal themselves to you, they would. That's basically my opinion on higher forces. Maybe it's kind of a lame one, I know. Maybe some people don't try to find them. I'm not going implore that you believe in something as a Christian conversing with you probably would, you talking to the wrong person here. They are there whether you or I even want to look in their direction. Anyway all of this is derailing my thread. I am not interested in proving the spirit world to you. You can however, address the arguments in my op if you wish. I am not trying to debate your personal position, I am trying to see if people would explore hypothetical ideas
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Listen, if the gods wanted to reveal themselves to you, they would. That's basically my opinion on higher forces. Maybe it's kind of a lame one, I know. Maybe some people don't try to find them. I'm not going implore that you believe in something as a Christian conversing with you probably would, you talking to the wrong person here. They are there whether you or I even want to look in their direction. Anyway all of this is derailing my thread. I am not interested in proving the spirit world to you. You can however, address the arguments in my op if you wish. I am not trying to debate your personal position, I am trying to see if people would explore hypothetical ideas


I am addressing the arguments in your OP, it seems you are unable to justify them as anything more than personal opinion which is what i said at the start.

You OP and subsequent posts did not really identify with hypothetical ideas but were more of a - this is how it is, so there - with no evidence to back up any claim

Anyway, as hypothetical ideas they dont fly in the world of reality
 
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