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Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by John1.12, May 1, 2021.

  1. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Then call it that then if that's what it is . And when does the new testament start according to the Scriptures themselves ? You keep quoting verses ( all Catholics and cults do) before the new testament begins .
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Sorry to say you are literally clueless per the above as all the verses I quoted were from the NT.

    What do you have against studying and/or looking things up that I even linked you to? That plus your anti-Jewish and anti-Catholic bigotry is really not at all moral under even the most basic Judeo-Christian standards.

    Clearly, I'm just wasting my time responding to your posts.
     
  3. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Read hebrews 9 and find out when the NT starts . Teaching is so bad that some think its that nice heading written before the book of Matthew.
     
  4. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Anti Jewish lol I see that most of the NT is Jesus speaking to Jews . You think the NT begins in Matthew lol . Catholics are known for taking verses for Israel and applying them to Rome .
     
  5. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    .
    Barry Johnson To believe this (above) you MUST reject the scriptures!
    First: You MUST remain IN Jesus to be saved! You receive the permanent indwelling of the Holy spirit when you BELIEVED & Baptism removes your sins!
    38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    3000 were saved because they were ADDED to the body of Jesus!

    Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
    Barry Johnson Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

    Brothers & Sisters are the saved...
    1 John 3:10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
    1 Cor 9:27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
    Barry Johnson Paul will lose salvation.. I myself will not be disqualified

    Barry Johnson How do you know you are not one of those who fall away? You won't know until your deathbed!
    Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.

    Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
    Barry Johnson This is not the language of self-confident assurance. Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.

    “As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24) but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:18, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling, with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

    Barry Johnson You MUST remain in Jesus to be saved!!!! Jesus is addressing the SAVED!!!
    John 15:2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.
    4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me
    .

    The idea of "Can't lose Salvation" is a man made TRADITION! It is NOT biblical...The De-Formation protestors twisted the words of God to say what they wanted God to say!

    Barry Johnson LOOK.... Jesus is teaching the Apostles how to pray!! (below)
    9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
    “‘Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    10 your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us today our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.’

    14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
    15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins
    .

    The Judgement at the end times the Sheep are judged righteous because of their ACTIONS! The Faith ALONE Goats thought all they needed was their faith, they are Satan's children!
     
  6. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Before we can address all of what you said. Let's look at the errors you make here :
    //You MUST remain IN Jesus to be saved!// Eph 1.13 and Eph 4.30 clearly say a believer remains in Jesus until glorification.
    // You receive the permanent indwelling of the Holy spirit when you BELIEVED & Baptism removes your sins!// This is false. You will find no verse applied to the body of Christ that says this .
    38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.//
    This a specific command given by Peter to Israel. .
    3000 were saved because they were ADDED to the body of Jesus!//

    Israel.
    Acts 2.38 is Israel ,Israel ,Israel . Its Israel all the way until Acts 7 .Gentiles were not commanded to be baptised in order to have remission of sins or to recieve the Holy Spirit . Paul is the apostle to the gentiles and you will never find a verse where Paul teaches this or says Acts 2.38
    That's why he says Eph 1.13 . Notice no water there . .
     
    #706 John1.12, May 15, 2021
    Last edited: May 15, 2021
  7. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Rom 11 is addressing Jews ( nation ) and Gentiles ( nation ) not individuals.
     
  8. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    It says " work out " ,not ' work for ' your salvation. And context ,context, context shows Paul is referring to the salvation we have and in light of it , work ' it ' out . As in Paul's salvation ' worked out ' to there salvation . Even through imprisonment he demonstrated his salvation worked out for the furtherance of the Gosepl. Now in his absence, in spite of the persecution they are undergoing they too can ' work out ' their salvation for the furthering of the Gospel.
     
  9. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    Scriptures are clear..... "Can't lose salvation is a Man made TRADITION first appering
    KJ21
    Therefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    BRG
    Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    CEB
    Therefore, my loved ones, just as you always obey me, not just when I am present but now even more while I am away, carry out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    DLNT
    So then my beloved, just as you always obeyed— not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence— be working-out your salvation with fear and trembling.

    EHV
    So then, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed, not only when I was with you, but also now much more in my absence, continue to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

    GNT
    So then, dear friends, as you always obeyed me when I was with you, it is even more important that you obey me now while I am away from you. Keep on working with fear and trembling to complete your salvation,

    NCV
    My dear friends, you have always obeyed. You obeyed God when I was with you. It is even more important that you obey now while I am not with you. Keep on working to complete your salvation, and do it with fear and trembling.

    NTE
    So, my dear people: you always did what I said, so please now carry on in the same way, not just as though I was there with you, but much more because I’m not! Your task now is to work at bringing about your own salvation; and naturally you’ll be taking this with utter seriousness.

    NTE
    So, my dear people: you always did what I said, so please now carry on in the same way, not just as though I was there with you, but much more because I’m not! Your task now is to work at bringing about your own salvation; and naturally you’ll be taking this with utter seriousness.

    Romans 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
    Barry Johnson Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

    John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.
    Barry Johnson Nothing says; God himself cannot remove you from his own hand and toss you into the fire!!!!!
     
  10. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Work .....out ....not work ....for .
     
  11. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    I notice you like those terrible translations . Kinda like pick n mix .
     
  12. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    // Nothing says; God himself cannot remove you from his own hand and toss you into the fire!!!!!// Yes nothing says , let's deal with what it does say please . And could we do so with context ? So far you are just quoting isolated verses and assuming they mean what you think they do ..Its quite entertaining but we're not getting anywhere. Could you add context ..Why Paul is writing, when ,where , what to who?
     
  13. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    As I already addressed ' work OUT your salvation ' with context given , I'm a little disappointed that your still just quoting the same isolated verse again , without any context. Could you walk through the surrounding verses ,ideally the thrust of the chapter and why you think at that moment Paul is saying you can lose your salvation. I'm sure you can dazzle us all with your understanding of this letter and why Paul is writing. I'm sure you know more than this one proof text you keep using ,out of context?
     
  14. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    So then, dear friends, as you always obeyed me when I was with you, it is even more important that you obey me now while I am away from you. Keep on working with fear and trembling to complete your salvation,
     
  15. Dogknox20

    Dogknox20 Active Member

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    14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven.

    Brothers & Sisters are the saved... they can be lost!
    John 5:16
    If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
     
  16. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    " complete your salvation" This is why I use the kjv .
     
  17. John1.12

    John1.12 Free gift

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    Then show the verse that ' explicitly ' SAYS what you believe. Notice im quoting verses that explicitly SAY my position .
    Here's a little help. Your quoting verses this way . Out of Context , to the wrong audience, triggered by words such as ' saved ' , death , sins, forgiven ect . Misapplied in the sense of :
    1) Old testament
    2) during the tribulation
    3) Death not eternal damnation
    4) Before the cross
    5) Our walk not out position .
    6) Poor translations
    7) Faulty understanding of how salvation is appropriated After Acts 2 . What the prerequisite is and the components of it. Roman Catholicism has no idea on this matter .
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you fantasized His return. It certainly is not Biblically supported.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I once had someone go aghast because I told her that I had taken communion twice on the same day. There is a lot of superstition that masquerades as Christianity.
     
  20. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Well priests can do it, so I don't see it would be a huge issue. But you are right about the superstition. Catholicism, being sacramental, still has a fair amount of it. Protestantism has less, though there are a lot of charlatans practising faith healing etc. which is in some ways worse.
     
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