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Does this truly represent Some Muslims view on Bahais?

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Here is short video about how some Muslims view Bahais:



Do you agree with this video?
From a country i am originally from, many had this view, but the new generation is more open minded.
 

spirit_of_dawn

Active Member
The way I see it, both this post and the contents of the video are Baha'i propaganda that fall under the category "proselytizing/preaching" and not allowed in the debate section.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I'm certainly not 'on the ground' in Iran. I think if anyone was, (including non-Iranian Bahai's) in a community where Baha's live, you would have a much better sense of the discrimination faced, just how extreme it is. As far as I know it has yet to escalate into a genocide, fortunately. It seems most certainly there is some degree of persecution going on, just as there is in a few hundred other places on this planet. Of course these things are felt far more by expatriates of the same group than the general populace. The general populace are generally naively unaware, as are other discriminated peoples. I doubt if the Rohingya of Myanmar are concerned about South Sudan, or the Baha'is of Iran, or the Kurds, who are minorities in 3 separate countries, and subjected to persecution in each.

As far as the idea that many or most Muslims feel this way, I would be surprised. The Muslim population on this planet reaches far beyond the borders of Iran, and I doubt that many, let alone most, care that much. Muslims themselves face persecution all around, in various places, 2 extremes mentioned here already. My only personal contact that led to any real discussions was a young man from Morocco, and he had never heard of Baha'i. Certainly he was tolerant towards my Hinduism. The other contacts via stores, my career etc., has been mostly with Lebanese. Nice friendly people whom I would be very surprised if they held such animosity towards baha'i in particular. I think the Muslims who do hold animosity generally hold it to everyone. But things are getting better in that regard. In expatriate communities, especially America, the ex-Muslim crowd is growing, but then so is ex-Baha'i, ex-Christian, and a lot of other exes. Probably even ex-Hindu. Mostly the quiet who just stop practicing, and not the vocal who hold a grudge.

Certainly the video was produced by a Baha'i author, and he did a great job of getting his message across. Too bad other groups don't have the resources to produce such quality videos. In my faith, we face discrimination from Muslims in Malaysia, Pakistan, and in particular Bangladesh. All minorities face it in Indonesia. Most certainly the Baha'i faith is not unique in its being victim to persecution. As far as videos and reports are concerned, I prefer UN reports, Amnesty International, or International Refugee Awareness groups, anyone whom I would consider having less bias.
 

spirit_of_dawn

Active Member
I'm certainly not 'on the ground' in Iran. I think if anyone was, (including non-Iranian Bahai's) in a community where Baha's live, you would have a much better sense of the discrimination faced, just how extreme it is. As far as I know it has yet to escalate into a genocide, fortunately. It seems most certainly there is some degree of persecution going on, just as there is in a few hundred other places on this planet. Of course these things are felt far more by expatriates of the same group than the general populace. The general populace are generally naively unaware, as are other discriminated peoples. I doubt if the Rohingya of Myanmar are concerned about South Sudan, or the Baha'is of Iran, or the Kurds, who are minorities in 3 separate countries, and subjected to persecution in each.

As far as the idea that many or most Muslims feel this way, I would be surprised. The Muslim population on this planet reaches far beyond the borders of Iran, and I doubt that many, let alone most, care that much. Muslims themselves face persecution all around, in various places, 2 extremes mentioned here already. My only personal contact that led to any real discussions was a young man from Morocco, and he had never heard of Baha'i. Certainly he was tolerant towards my Hinduism. The other contacts via stores, my career etc., has been mostly with Lebanese. Nice friendly people whom I would be very surprised if they held such animosity towards baha'i in particular. I think the Muslims who do hold animosity generally hold it to everyone. But things are getting better in that regard. In expatriate communities, especially America, the ex-Muslim crowd is growing, but then so is ex-Baha'i, ex-Christian, and a lot of other exes. Probably even ex-Hindu. Mostly the quiet who just stop practicing, and not the vocal who hold a grudge.

Certainly the video was produced by a Baha'i author, and he did a great job of getting his message across. Too bad other groups don't have the resources to produce such quality videos. In my faith, we face discrimination from Muslims in Malaysia, Pakistan, and in particular Bangladesh. All minorities face it in Indonesia. Most certainly the Baha'i faith is not unique in its being victim to persecution. As far as videos and reports are concerned, I prefer UN reports, Amnesty International, or International Refugee Awareness groups, anyone whom I would consider having less bias.

The scariest part about the video is the length that Baha'is are willing to go to demonize Muslims and Iran.

In all my life I have never heard of someone leaving a meeting because some dude attending was a Bahai and I have never seen a religious statement with this meaning. Yet a fake propaganda video shows a different picture.

And then the reference about his father being killed in Iran decades ago. Iran has gone through some very chaotic events right after the revolution 40 years ago. Many people were killed from many sides in the first few years. No one is proud of what happened. The number of Muslims killed were far more than the few Bahais. Yet Bahais make it look like they were singled out. People got over it yet some still feel a need to bring up the issue for their propaganda.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Just to give an example of the procecution of Bahais in iran:

Mona Mahmudnizhad (Persian: مونا محمودنژاد‎, September 10, 1965 – June 18, 1983) was an Iranian Bahá'í who, in 1983 (together with nine other Bahá'í women) was sentenced to death and hanged in Shiraz, Iran. She was accused of being a member of the Bahá'í Faith.[1][2][3]

Mona Mahmudnizhad - Wikipedia

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran’s supreme leader is urging Iranians to avoid all dealings with members of the banned Baha’i sect in a possible prelude to further crackdowns on the minority.

Iran already bans the Baha’i, a religion founded in the 1860s by a Persian nobleman considered a prophet by followers. Muslims consider Muhammad the final prophet

Khamenei issues new fatwa against Iran’s Baha’i
 

spirit_of_dawn

Active Member
Just to give an example of the procecution of Bahais in iran:

Mona Mahmudnizhad (Persian: مونا محمودنژاد‎, September 10, 1965 – June 18, 1983) was an Iranian Bahá'í who, in 1983 (together with nine other Bahá'í women) was sentenced to death and hanged in Shiraz, Iran. She was accused of being a member of the Bahá'í Faith.[1][2][3]

Mona Mahmudnizhad - Wikipedia

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — Iran’s supreme leader is urging Iranians to avoid all dealings with members of the banned Baha’i sect in a possible prelude to further crackdowns on the minority.

Iran already bans the Baha’i, a religion founded in the 1860s by a Persian nobleman considered a prophet by followers. Muslims consider Muhammad the final prophet

Khamenei issues new fatwa against Iran’s Baha’i

If you want to debate politics there is a separate section on the forum for that.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The scariest part about the video is the length that Baha'is are willing to go to demonize Muslims and Iran.

In all my life I have never heard of someone leaving a meeting because some dude attending was a Bahai and I have never seen a religious statement with this meaning. Yet a fake propaganda video shows a different picture.

And then the reference about his father being killed in Iran decades ago. Iran has gone through some very chaotic events right after the revolution 40 years ago. Many people were killed from many sides in the first few years. No one is proud of what happened. The number of Muslims killed were far more than the few Bahais. Yet Bahais make it look like they were singled out. People got over it yet some still feel a need to bring up the issue for their propaganda.

It's also the self-focus that is disturbing. Bahai'i persecution is there, sure, but so are a hundred others, and in far worse ways. Just once I'd like to hear a Baha'i complain about some other group getting persecuted. In America, the largest Muslim group are African American converts. Other groups outnumber the Iranians substantially. There are also UN lists of most needy refugees. Some are absolutely desperate, starving even. Many can't even make it to refugee camps, so dire is the situation.
So there is this tendency I've seen with some folks, and that is a 100% caring about their own specific ethnic group, and no care for any other group. That seems inhumane and selfish to me. As members of the human race, we need to care about everyone, regardless of ethnicity.

World’s Largest Refugee Camps in 2018 - raptim The Rohingya refugee camp in Bangladesh is 3 times the population of the entire Iranian Baha'is.
 
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spirit_of_dawn

Active Member
It's also the self-focus that is disturbing. Bahai'i persecution is there, sure, but so are a hundred others, and in far worse ways. Just once I'd like to hear a Baha'i complain about some other group getting persecuted. In America, the largest Muslim group are African American converts. Other groups outnumber the Iranians substantially. There are also UN lists of most needy refugees. Some are absolutely desperate, staving even. Many can't even make it to refugee camps, so dire is the situation.
So there is this tendency I've seen with some folks, and that is a 100% caring about their own specific ethnic group, and no care for any other group. That seems inhumane and selfish to me. As members of the human race, we need to care about everyone, regardless of ethnicity.

Exactly. Just a few posts back there is a link about Bahais in Yemen being put on trial. That is all that matters to them. Yet youll never see them post something about Saudia Arabia and the US that are killing innocent civilians in Yemen on a daily basis. Youll see dozens of posts about persecution of bahais in Iran but not a single post condemning the US for its inhumane sanctioning of 80 million Iranians. Its probably part of the principle of Noneness of Humanity.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Exactly. Just a few posts back there is a link about Bahais in Yemen being put on trial. That is all that matters to them. Yet youll never see them post something about Saudia Arabia and the US that are killing innocent civilians in Yemen on a daily basis. Youll see dozens of posts about persecution of bahais in Iran but not a single post condemning the US for its inhumane sanctioning of 80 million Iranians. Its probably part of the principle of Noneness of Humanity.

I don't think Baha'i are unique in this facet of life. They may well be more extreme at it than some others. I think it's just natural to favour your own ethnicity. or religion, in politics. It's like being a homer for sports teams. Familiarity brings more love and concern. Certainly we're more concerned about our own families than strangers on the other side of the planet. To see the bigger picture can be difficult. It's always wise to think that there are at least two sides to every story.

When the Sri Lankan war was going on, and I would discuss it with friends and acquaintances, it was only the rare person who could say, "We're partly to blame."
 
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Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
I'm certainly not 'on the ground' in Iran. I think if anyone was, (including non-Iranian Bahai's) in a community where Baha's live, you would have a much better sense of the discrimination faced, just how extreme it is. As far as I know it has yet to escalate into a genocide, fortunately. It seems most certainly there is some degree of persecution going on, just as there is in a few hundred other places on this planet. Of course these things are felt far more by expatriates of the same group than the general populace. The general populace are generally naively unaware, as are other discriminated peoples. I doubt if the Rohingya of Myanmar are concerned about South Sudan, or the Baha'is of Iran, or the Kurds, who are minorities in 3 separate countries, and subjected to persecution in each.

As far as the idea that many or most Muslims feel this way, I would be surprised. The Muslim population on this planet reaches far beyond the borders of Iran, and I doubt that many, let alone most, care that much. Muslims themselves face persecution all around, in various places, 2 extremes mentioned here already. My only personal contact that led to any real discussions was a young man from Morocco, and he had never heard of Baha'i. Certainly he was tolerant towards my Hinduism. The other contacts via stores, my career etc., has been mostly with Lebanese. Nice friendly people whom I would be very surprised if they held such animosity towards baha'i in particular. I think the Muslims who do hold animosity generally hold it to everyone. But things are getting better in that regard. In expatriate communities, especially America, the ex-Muslim crowd is growing, but then so is ex-Baha'i, ex-Christian, and a lot of other exes. Probably even ex-Hindu. Mostly the quiet who just stop practicing, and not the vocal who hold a grudge.

Certainly the video was produced by a Baha'i author, and he did a great job of getting his message across. Too bad other groups don't have the resources to produce such quality videos. In my faith, we face discrimination from Muslims in Malaysia, Pakistan, and in particular Bangladesh. All minorities face it in Indonesia. Most certainly the Baha'i faith is not unique in its being victim to persecution. As far as videos and reports are concerned, I prefer UN reports, Amnesty International, or International Refugee Awareness groups, anyone whom I would consider having less bias.

Vinayaka you made some excellent and very reasonable and mature comments that I really appreciate.

First you acknowledge that discrimination against Baha’is does exist but pointed out rightfully that it exists also against countless minorities worldwide and all humanity must matter to us not only Baha’is. Excellent point and perspective. We are not the only ones on our planet suffering!

Next I commend you for maintaining perspective.

Generalisation can be dangerous and often you have pointed that out to me. It’s my humble opinion that Muslims worldwide are ordinary peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives and as Baha’is we are to regard and respect them and all people as equals according to Baha’u’llah.

There is definitely a group of fanatics known to the UN and others who hold power and want the Bahai Faith exterminated and they spread misinformation but they are a very small minority who possess great power and use it to turn their own followers & countrymen against Baha’is through misinformation & propaganda. However most Muslims it is my firm belief, are not fanatics and do not hate Baha’is or anyone but are peaceful upright people.

The video to me is concerning as it depicts a’Muslim’ ‘any Muslim’ disparagingly and may leave the impression to others publicly that all Muslims are like this which is clearly untrue to me. Is the acting Muslim in that video representative of 1.7 billion Muslims world wide? Do all Muslims hate Baha’is? Do all Muslims get shocked at hearing a person they work or study with is a Baha’i? There is already enough prejudice against Muslims, innocent Muslims and this unfortunately seems to be further demonising Muslims but trying to make it look dignified.

If I were a Muslim who loved and respected the Baha’is I would be deeply offended as it only applies to some not all and even then they are brainwashed and ignorant, the real problem lies with their teachers and educators the Mullas and they believe what they are told.

We are not supposed to magnify the faults of others as is being done here. What if our true faults were exposed online in a video and we have plenty of them. Would we like that?

With regards to other religions we are enjoined to....

Baha’u’llah says:

Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.

(Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh, Bishárát)

And again,

“magnify not the faults of others that thine own faults may not appear great; and wish not the abasement of anyone, that thine own abasement be not exposed.”

Excerpt from
The Hidden Words
Bahá'u'lláh

O Son of Man!

Breathe not the sins of others so long as thou art thyself a sinner. Shouldst thou transgress this command, accursed wouldst thou be, and to this I bear witness. Baha’u’llah

Abdu’l-Bahá tells us:—

To be silent concerning the faults of others, to pray for them, and to help them, through kindness, to correct their faults.

To look always at the good and not at the bad. If a man has ten good qualities and one bad one, to look at the ten and forget the one; and if a man has ten bad qualities and one good one, to look at the one and forget the ten.

Never to allow ourselves to speak one unkind word about another, even though that other be our enemy. Abdul-Baha

By putting videos like this online depicting Muslims in a bad light how pray tell are we creating unity of religion?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The video to me is concerning as it depicts a’Muslim’ ‘any Muslim’ disparagingly and may leave the impression to others publicly that all Muslims are like this which is clearly untrue to me.

But it is a Baha'i produced video, L of H. Do you see now why some people suspect the Bahai of being deceptive? It seems to me that in this case, that is what you feel. Would you write to the maker of the video and tell him what you just said here?
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
The scariest part about the video is the length that Baha'is are willing to go to demonize Muslims and Iran.

In all my life I have never heard of someone leaving a meeting because some dude attending was a Bahai and I have never seen a religious statement with this meaning. Yet a fake propaganda video shows a different picture.

And then the reference about his father being killed in Iran decades ago. Iran has gone through some very chaotic events right after the revolution 40 years ago. Many people were killed from many sides in the first few years. No one is proud of what happened. The number of Muslims killed were far more than the few Bahais. Yet Bahais make it look like they were singled out. People got over it yet some still feel a need to bring up the issue for their propaganda.

You're wrong.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
But it is a Baha'i produced video, L of H. Do you see now why some people suspect the Bahai of being deceptive? It seems to me that in this case, that is what you feel. Would you write to the maker of the video and tell him what you just said here?

I think it was more unwise and unbalanced in that it does occur mainly in Iran but is in no way a reflection of the entire Muslim world.

The quotes of Baha’u’llah and Abdul-Baha I included represent the true spirit of our Faith although both myself and others do get it wrong. We are far from perfect.

I don’t know if the maker of the video ever took into account that this depiction might hurt those Muslims who befriend and love Baha’is.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The scariest part about the video is the length that Baha'is are willing to go to demonize Muslims and Iran.

In all my life I have never heard of someone leaving a meeting because some dude attending was a Bahai and I have never seen a religious statement with this meaning. Yet a fake propaganda video shows a different picture.

And then the reference about his father being killed in Iran decades ago. Iran has gone through some very chaotic events right after the revolution 40 years ago. Many people were killed from many sides in the first few years. No one is proud of what happened. The number of Muslims killed were far more than the few Bahais. Yet Bahais make it look like they were singled out. People got over it yet some still feel a need to bring up the issue for their propaganda.

The Baha’is are telling the truth about the way they are treated in Iran as it is documented at the UN but it should be made clear that this does not apply to all Muslims or the entire Muslim world.

Recently a group of Muslims protested to the Iranian government about the desecration of Baha’i cemeteries so we must be very clear that there are a lot of good and well meaning Muslims.

Muslim leaders embrace Ayatollah Tehrani's call for religious coexistence | Bahá’í World News Service (BWNS)

Violation of Baha'i Citizenship Rights Disgusting and Disgraceful - Iran Press Watch

The Bahai International Community officially acknowledges the wonderful efforts by some Muslim leaders and scholars in fighting for the rights of Baha’is.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think it was more unwise and unbalanced in that it does occur mainly in Iran but is in no way a reflection of the entire Muslim world.

The quotes of Baha’u’llah and Abdul-Baha I included represent the true spirit of our Faith although both myself and others do get it wrong. We are far from perfect.

I don’t know if the maker of the video ever took into account that this depiction might hurt those Muslims who befriend and love Baha’is.
You didn't answer my question, so I will repeat it, not expecting an answer. Do you see now, why some people (like myself and several others on these forums) suspect the Baha'i of being deceptive?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The Baha’is are telling the truth about the way they are treated in Iran as it is documented at the UN but it should be made clear that this does not apply to all Muslims or the entire Muslim world.

Recently a group of Muslims protested to the Iranian government about the desecration of Baha’i cemeteries so we must be very clear that there are a lot of good and well meaning Muslims.

Muslim leaders embrace Ayatollah Tehrani's call for religious coexistence | Bahá’í World News Service (BWNS)

Violation of Baha'i Citizenship Rights Disgusting and Disgraceful - Iran Press Watch

The Bahai International Community officially acknowledges the wonderful efforts by some Muslim leaders and scholars in fighting for the rights of Baha’is.
Why always quote Baha'i sources? All press is biased. Why not find an article from Reuters, the BBC, etc. someone supposedly more neutral?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You didn't answer my question, so I will repeat it, not expecting an answer. Do you see now, why some people (like myself and several others on these forums) suspect the Baha'i of being deceptive?

I already answered that question. We are imperfect. If you feel that every imperfect Bahai is deliberately deceptive then believe what you feel is true. Follow what your heart tells you.

But my humble experience tells me it’s unwisdom and immaturity. Children often do silly things but it doesn’t mean they are evil. We Baha’is are still learning what it is to be a Bahai so we are going to make mistakes and plenty of them but there is no evil or secret intention.
 
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