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Does this offend you?

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
So it is not mystery that I am an avid gamer. We all have our ways to "unwind" and to enjoy our time, mine is gaming. I have been getting really into a game called League Of Legends my friends and I play a lot and find a lot of joy in it. Well there is a game similar to it called "Smite". In LoL you play the role of a heroic champion fighting an eternal duel against other eternal champions, in a grand arena. Replace these champions with Gods and Goddesses of other religions pantheons and you get Smite.

Hindu leader requests removal of deities from Smite, Hi-Rez declines | PC Gamer

Well there are Hindus Gods and Goddesses in this game specifically Agni, Kali, and Vamana and some Hindus got very upset. I won't lie the fact that I could play Kali in this game kind of attracted me to it, I guess I just don't get offended easily, maybe since I wasn't raised Hindu I am not as easily taken aback. Should I be offended? Should anyone be offended? Should we avoid this game at all costs?!?!?!?!
 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
I'm not offended personally. Because they are not being mocked or ridiculised. I was playing a rpg where there was almost all the Sri Gods of the Rg veda mentionned in it. But same, there was no ill intend behind.

There are things way more offending then that. Why aren't they bothered when their Ishta is depicted on a food or home product package that they will throw in the trash when used ?
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
I'm not offended personally. Because they are not being mocked or ridiculised. I was playing a rpg where there was almost all the Sri Gods of the Rg veda mentionned in it. But same, there was no ill intend behind.

There are things way more offending then that. Why aren't they bothered when their Ishta is depicted on a food or home product package that they will throw in the trash when used ?

Good point... I actually tried the game. Its okay but LoL is better
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
My husband plays this silly game on his kindle (I can't think of the name) but it's one of those big-eyes anime hero games where you go around fighting monsters. You can "earn" other characters that fight on your behalf.

Among these are gods from other pantheons and a few Hindu Gods - Shiva, and Lakshmi oddly enough.

He showed me what they looked like in the game and we had a good laugh because the degree to which the game designers clearly don't understand Hindu iconography is staggering.

It's not offensive to me because I can't imagine Lakshmi getting upset over it. It's a game. People who play it and say to others later, "So Lakshmi is like this and this - I know because I saw it in a game." Are not even worth worrying about. ;)

:camp:
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
My husband plays this silly game on his kindle (I can't think of the name) but it's one of those big-eyes anime hero games where you go around fighting monsters. You can "earn" other characters that fight on your behalf.

Among these are gods from other pantheons and a few Hindu Gods - Shiva, and Lakshmi oddly enough.

He showed me what they looked like in the game and we had a good laugh because the degree to which the game designers clearly don't understand Hindu iconography is staggering.

It's not offensive to me because I can't imagine Lakshmi getting upset over it. It's a game. People who play it and say to others later, "So Lakshmi is like this and this - I know because I saw it in a game." Are not even worth worrying about. ;)

:camp:

On this front I give the game a little bit of credit. At least from the play with Kali I actually feel they put some work into getting the lore correct. The have a little synopsis of the God or Goddess detailing their "Rise to power" and at least for Kali Maa they were pretty correct.
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer that Hinduism make it's way into western culture in other ways too, but this is the least of Hinduisms problems.

Although, I have to ask - is the Christian God depicted in this game?

If not, I'd say there's bit of bias going on here. Why are "pagan" pantheons fare game, but not Abrahamic deities? (Other then the fact that traditionally, most Gods in "pagan" pantheons look way more bad-*** than depictions of Abrahamic deities. Just tellin' it like it is.)

:camp:
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer that Hinduism make it's way into western culture in other ways too, but this is the least of Hinduisms problems.

Although, I have to ask - is the Christian God depicted in this game?

If not, I'd say there's bit of bias going on here. Why are "pagan" pantheons fare game, but not Abrahamic deities?

:camp:

No there is no Jesus, or Muhammad(can't exactly blame them for this because that could get them killed by extremists).

I think the reason is there are no "warrior" like aspects of other religions messiahs except maybe Moses but Moses isn't being contested as a God. He was just a man, same with Mohamad. So the only one that COULD be in it would be Jesus since he is the only one viewed as "a God". BUT I don't think Jesus has the "warrior" look they want probably.
 

Fireside_Hindu

Jai Lakshmi Maa
Honestly, there really only doing what all game companies have been doing forever. They co-opt all sorts of things in order to make it an interesting game to play.

I mean, think abut any Mario game. It stars two stereotyped Italian plumbers. It's really hard for Italians to get mad about it though, I imagine. It's hardly worth the eye-roll.

:camp:
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
This kind of relates to something i've been thinking about lately. There are some situations where someone's idea of God, or in this specific case, their depiction of some gods is different than the mainstream follower's idea or depiction. Some people get offended and feel like they need to correct these people or defend their God/gods. Of course, in some instances, this is a perfectly reasonable situation of correcting a common misunderstanding based in ignorance, but sometimes it seems to be a matter of a person forcing a certain idea to be the fact.

So, here's the thing I've thought of. Do we own God/these gods? I would say that no god belongs to it's followers. If God/a god is powerful, why do we feel the need to defend them and speak for them? Why not let them take care of themselves in this regard? This sort of thing applies to any religion.

If any of these gods have a problem with it, im sure they are fully capable of doing something about it themselves.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
Don't get me wrong, I'd prefer that Hinduism make it's way into western culture in other ways too, but this is the least of Hinduisms problems.

Although, I have to ask - is the Christian God depicted in this game?

If not, I'd say there's bit of bias going on here. Why are "pagan" pantheons fare game, but not Abrahamic deities? (Other then the fact that traditionally, most Gods in "pagan" pantheons look way more bad-*** than depictions of Abrahamic deities. Just tellin' it like it is.)

:camp:

Yeah, Id say it's because the Abrahamic God isn't exactly interesting or cool looking, nor does it have a form to depict. So, the bias is more in the line of Hinduism and pagan religions having gods that are actually interesting and cool. If we're playing a fighting game, we want to play characters who are bad-*** and cool :D
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think a certain person is more attention seeker than a spokesperson for Hindus. But I suppose somebody should say something, as it can go too far, this use of deities all over.

But it's not exactly an issue. I'm not offended personally.
 

JaiMaaDurga

Member
Namaste,

Some lines of thought that can be followed further from previous replies:
the idea that Maa Kali, or any of the other deities actively worshiped by vast
numbers of people, is equivalent to deities of civilizations no longer extant
in the sense of "fair game" for recasting in some entertainment role.

I do not believe it is conscious on the part of the game's creators; more like
Disney with "Hercules", or George Lucas with certain alien races in Star Wars-
in both cases, there was genuine surprise at the level of protest against
the perceived objectionable aspects.

On the one hand, I do not find it beneficial to "demand that every last person
check with their local Vedic authority before doing or saying anything that
might involve Hinduism, else face my wrath"-

Yet, I do not think such things should always be given a casual pass;
though rioting and setting buildings on fire is not an answer, and there
may be more pressing problems in the world, there is still a subtle strain
of minimization... the ghost of Kipling still can be found lurking here and there,
and to completely brush it off is not healthy in my opinion.

JAI MATA DI
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
The only "video" games I ever played that actually got me playing multiple times (basically, I don't play video games), and actually they were not "video" games (?) but computer game software, were:

* Prince of Persia

* Myst

MystCover.png


Prince-of-Persia-DOS.jpg


I might LIKE such a game on a Ramayana theme, but while I am not so offended, having Balaram fight Odin for example seems odd to me.

Om Namah Sivaya
 

Kalidas

Well-Known Member
The only "video" games I ever played that actually got me playing multiple times (basically, I don't play video games), and actually they were not "video" games (?) but computer game software, were:

* Prince of Persia

* Myst

MystCover.png


Prince-of-Persia-DOS.jpg


I might LIKE such a game on a Ramayana theme, but while I am not so offended, having Balaram fight Odin for example seems odd to me.

Om Namah Sivaya

I pretty much only play pc games, still video games by the "definition of a video game". PC MASTER RACE! lol just a bit of gamer humor
 
So it is not mystery that I am an avid gamer. We all have our ways to "unwind" and to enjoy our time, mine is gaming. I have been getting really into a game called League Of Legends my friends and I play a lot and find a lot of joy in it. Well there is a game similar to it called "Smite". In LoL you play the role of a heroic champion fighting an eternal duel against other eternal champions, in a grand arena. Replace these champions with Gods and Goddesses of other religions pantheons and you get Smite.

Hindu leader requests removal of deities from Smite, Hi-Rez declines | PC Gamer

Well there are Hindus Gods and Goddesses in this game specifically Agni, Kali, and Vamana and some Hindus got very upset. I won't lie the fact that I could play Kali in this game kind of attracted me to it, I guess I just don't get offended easily, maybe since I wasn't raised Hindu I am not as easily taken aback. Should I be offended? Should anyone be offended? Should we avoid this game at all costs?!?!?!?!

Thanks Kalidas for sharing this news about the game.

There is no being that can exist without the deity. They should understand that deities are not toys. I have seen many images of the game and they did not look appropriate and in games some people use very bad words to comment on characters!

Also the problem is many people who play this game learn from the characters they may make offensive comments or criticize the deities without knowing the fact. if other people read those comments may make wrong thoughts in their mind about the deities. Some other companies or gaming industries may also use this concept and the inappropriate images of deity.

In this big entire universe couldn't they get any other characters except deities ? Without knowing Hinduism properly they use deity images as toys. We all should raise voice against it. Undoubtedly Kali Maa is offended and I am also offended.

I am glad that universal society of Hinduism raised voice against it to remove those characters from the game: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118740-Smite-Dev-Removes-Offensive-Goddess-From-Website

__________________
Jai Shree Krishna. Acquire Spiritual Knowledge.

1. Truly there is in this world nothing so purifying as transcendental knowledge.-(Bhagwad Gita [4.38])

2. Even if someone is the most sinful of all sinners, he can also cross the ocean of sins by situating in the boat of transcendental knowledge. (Bhagwad Gita - 4.36)

3. As the blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of transcendental knowledge burn to ashes all activities for the material desire.(Bhagwad Gita - 4.37)

4. But the man who is without knowledge, who is ignorant, who is faithless and of a doubting nature perishes. For him there is neither this world, nor next, nor happiness either. -(Bhagwad Gita [4.40])

5. Therefore the doubts which have arisen in your heart out of ignorance should be slashed by the sword of transcendental knowledge and taking shelter in Yog, stand up, O Bharat.-(Bhagwad Gita [4.42]
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Should I be offended? Should anyone be offended? Should we avoid this game at all costs?
You say you are not offended. In that case it is your choice. However, I do not like Hindu Gods and Goddesses in games or advertisements. It is easy to slip from fun to denigration. Who wins in a fight between Odin and Balarama as ShivaFan said? The game is ridiculing at least one.
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram

having never had any experience of video games or any such forms of gaming you might think me un qualified to speak .

I remember talking with freinds children at the temple and seeing their absorbtion in such games , and seeing the huge influence these games had on their thinking , and their attitude towards others we were extremely concerned ...I remember thinking that if these games were based upon the Ramayana and were constructively desidned to teach dharma then there might be some benifit , ...

but to think that the player may be in control of the gods is extremely dangerous .

I am not offended but I am extremely worried about this kind of over familiarisation
and I agree 108 % with arpankhandelwal ji...

''They should understand that deities are not toys.''

and I am similarly pleased that there has been some objection from serious Hindus ,

infact I am against all gaming is it encorages the players to live out un realistic scenarios often centered around displays of control and violence , If a game taught Humility and dharma then there might be some benifit , ...how many hindus have taken vows which include ''No gambling'' .....and why no gambling ? what relevance does this have to gaming ???...no speculation , no dreaming , no alternative realities , ...we are to live out our lives according to our dharma , and try to find god through humble submition , .....to delude our selves that we are the controler even in games is dangerous , we will never come to know god in this manner the only result is that our minds will be filled with false impressions , ...which is equal to delusion or blindness .

if we are to be respectfull and understand our true nature we should all be completely against any trivialisation of the gods .

I am not offended , this is kali yuga all manner of ignorance is all around us , ....but I am sickened when I see the way it is going , ...and again agree completely with Aupmanyav ji....

''it is your choice. However, I do not like Hindu Gods and Goddesses in games or advertisements. It is easy to slip from fun to denigration.''


 

Nyingjé Tso

Tänpa Yungdrung zhab pä tän gyur jig
If I can say something "from inside"...

Ratikala, I grew up with video games from six and still playin now. Almost sixteen years straight. The only thing it affected in my brain or attitude is my level of english that rocketed very young thanks to playing games in english, and wonderful memories of fun with my brother.
Of course we can argue, there are games that are plain stupid. Or very violents. They are not made for childrens, but for adults. And it's clearly written on the box. So why does childrens play these games ? Because they have parents that give them everything when they pout, and then blame the violent ADULT game they gifted them ?
Do they make people stupid ? Or are they addictive ? Well for the first one, considering that now they use games to cure phobia, war traumatisms and that they are more than widely used as an educative tool for schools and companies, I wouldn't call them useless or idiots makers. For the addiction, it is prouved that games does not provoke any more addictive behavior than books, tv, or cats. When you see people playing days in a row without stopping, itns not the game, it's an underlying psychological problem that shows and have to be taken care of.

Now it's been some years I'm inside the industry, been to the US, India, and stuff to see how they work. Been to Valve, Arena, from the big ones to the tiny studio you don't even hear about.
Yes, I can say many are completely ignorants of Hindu culture, like they can be on Chinese or European. Religion there at work is a complete separate matter. So the day you'll see a game where you have to make Jehovah kill Rama will never, even happen. Because I can assure you that the game designer who will propose this idea to an editor (to get money) will be *** kicked to space and ypu will never see his name again in a game.

Now when they to make a game about a certain culture, historical era or anything, they spend months of pre-production to research their subject and work on how it can be depicted to fit their game's universe or graphical style. There is no religious conflict or cultural superiority sought. The only reason you don't see abrahamic deities in those games is because they don't want to be bombed the next day. Last time a french newspaper featured Mohammed, they got bombed and threatened of death.

And ecen with that.... I can telle you names of games where abrahamuc god/s are depicted. So well...

In the cade of smite specifically (Sorry Kalidas, not playing it, not fond of dota like) the depiction problem originate not by the fact that they are ignorants of Hindu religion, but to the favt that they had to adapt the graphic style to fit their artistic direction and give a coherent graphical style to their game. That's the basics. Secondly, for marketing purpises, they have to look ******.

Now first time I sax Rama's artwork I shrugged and said "well that's not Sri Rama." There are tjousand of people that are called Rama on tv or irl and they are not Sri Rama. There are millions of food paper depicting Sri Rama that are thrown away in the streets or torn, not by westerners or christians, but by us hindus.

So much childrens have Bal Ganesha and Chota Beem toys and figurines. They play with them. They make them beat other figurines. Or get beaten by other toys in they adventures. Should we forbid those childrens to pkay with those toys because they "control" the gods, have "fun" with them or make them "die" ?

I know, we should do like muslims and forbid every representation of Gods, just to be sure none of them are depicted on food package an neither in games and toys
We should raise awareness about the dangerosity of Bal Ganesha, smite, and Laxmi dhoop brand. Hell, why not punish them ? And also forbid people to be called by Gods names, to avoid their bad deeds to turn in bad the name of the God they bear !

How far can we go with this reasoning ?

Why being offended ? Where does it to be offended ?
To conflict. And since when are we, Hindus, advocates of conflict ? Let's RAISE OUR VOICES to EDUCATE. Any dumb religious extremist can be offended by anything and bash a scapegoat restlessly, but not us ! We raise our voices more and more fervently to educate !

So what ? Let go of the damn scapegoat and let's sweep in front of our own door to begin with
When mcdonalds feature Krishna for their new burger, of when they print an AUM on toilet papers, then give me a call because THESE are REAL issues to be offended of.

Until now I will continue not to give a single damn about smite and be more preoccupied with people that torn the face of Lakshmi on a food package before throwing it, or with the fact that people actually URINATE on Sri Rama's face depicted on the street's tiles in India.

One last thing. Indians have made games with Hindu gods that are as badly depicted as in smite. So it's neither a "west" problem, nor a "videogame" problem. It's a "where are your priorities" problem.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Or very violents. They are not made for childrens, but for adults.
Do you seriously think violence, profanity, or pornography is OK for adults? The game I enjoyed was the dictionary, where one word led to another and reading about the roots of the words. Another that I enjoyed was encyclopedia (and atlas) where one information led to another. I play Wikipedia now. These are very interesting games. I want my elder grandson to play them.

No, I have not issued a fatwa against 'smite' but would like them to respect the sensibilities of people who rever the Gods and Goddesses they depict. It is a civil thing to do that. ;)
 
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DeviChaaya

Jai Ambe Gauri
Premium Member
As an avid gamer and something of an ardent devotee of Shiva-Shakti, I was thrilled when I first heard about Kali and Shiva being in SMITE. I think it's great. It gets people who 1may never have looked at our deities potentially interested in our deities! And this is wonderful
 
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