Does this mean Jesus is God?

YoursTrue · Apr 4, 2022

John 8:29 says clearly to me that Jesus is not God. How about you? Does the following statement of Jesus at John 8:29 tell you that Jesus is God?
"The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him."

DharmaCatLamp · Apr 4, 2022

I think even though John has the highest christology of any of the gospels it's never directly states that Jesus is God. The closest we get is John 1 verses 1 through 5 where it says

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome.
Followed by
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

It seems to me kind of weird to only really make this claim in one place and in such a clunky manner. I've seen debates about what people actually think this means as well.
When we are talking about John 8:29 the language there seems to me to imply a degree of separation. I would argue that it is not claiming that Jesus is God there but rather giving enough of a degree of separation to imply they are separate individuals.

exchemist · Apr 4, 2022

Notice he does not say "God" but "the Father".

YoursTrue · Apr 4, 2022

So you think he could have meant maybe that he is God equal to God "the Father"? Even though he says the first person has not left him? (Implying he could have left him, but maybe that's the way some could look at it. But the Father did not leave Jesus because -- he was one and the same? --
Oh yes, when Jesus was dying, he didn't say he was equal to the father, did he?
Or the two (not three) were one? As I look at it more, would you say that the trinity is one or three? One God with three persons each equal to the others and the whole sum of them, maybe not quite the same with different functions?

Brian2 · Apr 4, 2022

It does not appear to be saying that Jesus is God.

exchemist · Apr 4, 2022

I'm not reciting the doctrine of the Trinity for you. There are plenty of discussions of this available already all over the web. Look them up if you don't know.

But this quotation from St. John's gospel is perfectly consistent with the concept of the Trinity. That's all.

KW · Apr 4, 2022

Not by itself, but it is a hint.

Here are more direct quotes:

John 10:30
The Father and I are one.

John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

sun rise · Apr 4, 2022

I take Jesus as an Avatar of God along with Buddha, Krishna and others. But that does not come from the Bible, of course.

KW · Apr 4, 2022

That would be tricky because they taught different things.

Sgt. Pepper · Apr 4, 2022

Does anyone else here know about the hypostatic union? It's the theological belief that Jesus Christ took on a human nature, yet he remained fully God. It's in conjunction with the Trinity doctrine. It's what I was taught when I was a Christian, and it's what I believed during that time. I grew up Baptist, but I switched to the Nazarene Church when I was 18, and this belief about Jesus was preached in both churches. These articles explain what I'm talking about: What is the hypostatic union? and Does Christ have two natures?

Fool · Apr 4, 2022

jesus is god due to pantheism

and god is to be exalted in self, in the earth.

1 Corinthians 6:20

KW · Apr 4, 2022

Hypostatic Union, a theological term used with reference to the Incarnation to express the revealed truth that in Christ one person subsists in two natures, the Divine and the human. Hypostasis (upostasis) means, literally, that which lies beneath as basis or foundation. Hence it came to be used by the Greek philosophers to denote reality as distinguished from appearances (Aristotle, “Mund.”, IV, 21). It occurs also in St. Paul’s Epistles (II Cor., ix, 4; xi, 17; Heb., i, 3: iii, 14), but not in the sense of person. Previous to the Council of Nicaea (325) hypostasis was synonymous with ousia, and even St. Augustine (De Trin., V, 8) avers that he sees no difference between them. The distinction in fact was brought about gradually in the course of the controversies to which the Christological heresies gave rise, and was definitively established by the Council of Chalcedon (451), which declared that in Christ the two natures, each retaining its own properties, are united in one subsistence and one person (eis en prosopon kai mian upostasin) (Denzinger, ed. Bannwart, 148). They are not joined in a moral or accidental union (Nestorius), nor commingled (Eutyches), and nevertheless they are substantially united. For further explanation and bibliography See Incarnation; Jesus Christ; Monophysites and Monophysitism; Nature; Person.

metis · Apr 4, 2022

In Catholicism, what we call "the Mystery of the Trinity" has it that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are of the essence of God the Father but not precisely God the Father.

74x12 · Apr 4, 2022

Well it's a bit of a loaded question since it's hard to extrapolate from that single verse that Jesus is God. However, taken in the context of the rest of the book of John and with evidence from other books of the Bible; this verse does indicate the divine nature of Christ.

To be clear the verse speaks of both the Divinity of Christ and the humanity of Christ.

For the humanity of Christ that part is easily seen since Jesus says God is with him. So he is speaking as a human being in need of God like the rest of us.

But when he says God sent him that is speaking of the Divine nature of Christ because we can see a few verses later in verse 42 that Jesus proceeded and came forth from God and that's how God "sent" him.

So Jesus is literally saying he came out of God.

John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.

Just like in Matthew 4:4 we see the Word of God proceeds out of the mouth of God.
And in Isaiah 55:11 the Word of God goes forth out of the mouth of God and accomplishes what it's sent to do.

Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Isaiah 55:11
so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Can God send himself then? Yes, we see in Psalm 104:30 that God sends out his own Spirit.

Psalm 104:30
Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

So even though God is "a Spirit" (John 4:24) He can still send out his Spirit to specific locations and in the case of Jesus; Jesus himself is the Word of God sent out in human form (see John 1:14) and he is bodily indwelled with the fullness of God's nature. (see Colossians 2:8-9)

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Col 2:8-9
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

According to Colossians 1:19 it pleased all the fullness (of God) to dwell in him.

Colossians 1:19
because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,

stanberger · Apr 4, 2022

stanberger · Apr 4, 2022

jesus ' father greater than I. I can do nothing on my own ' this aint no god

Redemptionsong · Apr 4, 2022

Here are some questions that may help to clarify the issue.

Did Jesus, as a body, soul and spirit, pre-exist with God?

Was Jesus born (of flesh) with the Spirit of the Father resting upon him?

At what point, if ever, did the fulness of the Spirit of the Father rest upon Jesus?

When Jesus ascended to heaven, did he have a spiritual body, a human soul, and a holy spirit?

KW · Apr 4, 2022

Jesus limited himself to become man, but he is God:

John 10:30
The Father and I are one.

John 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Phil 2
6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.

metis · Apr 4, 2022

We need to remember, imo, that Jesus identifies with God and yet doesn't claim to be God. For just one of many examples, Jesus says he does not know when the end of times will be as only the Father knows. When on the cross, he prays to his Father, which wouldn't make sense if he was actually God-- iow, why would God pray to Himself?

Again, the Greek concept of "essence" is likely the key here, especially since the NT was written in Koine Greek.

viole · Apr 4, 2022

I hope is not. I know a lot of Christians who have carved images of Him. Which would doom them, if Jesus is really God.

ciao

- viole

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