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Does the U.S. have a "gun problem"?

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
I vote YES.
A served 22.5 years as a police officer in a city known for it's share of violent crime.
Nearby Canton Oh. (F.B. hall of fame) is 5 times the size of the city I policed yet our city
had more murders than Canton.
Honest, I can't remember how many murders I investigated when I was a detective.
There were plenty in when I was a uniformed officer just taking the preliminary reports.
It was sickening.

Yer thorts?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Part of it is cultural, I think. I grew up in a rural Midwestern county where nearly everyone owned guns, and that had one murder in 125 years until the 1970s. Then things began to change. But whether the issue is cultural or not, we have a gun problem in this country. Guns make it easier to wound or kill people. In a sense, they're like pouring gasoline on a fire.
 

Sees

Dragonslayer
I think it's too many folks with crappy subcultures packed in together that commit crimes with firearms and there is no doubt they would do the same with bats, knives, razors, etc.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
I think it's too many folks with crappy subcultures packed in together that commit crimes with firearms and there is no doubt they would do the same with bats, knives, razors, etc.

Really I do tend to beleive that.
I've seen a lot of violent deaths at the hands of others and suicides.
The weapons varied but guns weren't leading the list of weapons used.
With respect to suicide there were many that used a firearm but just as many that used some other method.
I've seen the garden hose in the tail pipe, the other end in the cockpit.
Overdoses of meds or drinking after shave & rubbing alcohol and believe it or not taking a large number
or asprins is quite deadly.
The absolute worse suicide was a black female that filled the bath tube with water and many cans of Drano!
A person has really gotta want to die to stay in that mix.
With respect firearms suicide many victims use a small caliber handgun not realizing the bullet will wreck the brain but
the victim is conscious and simply pumps out over time.
Most homocides were committed with cheap small caliber handguns or the ever effective shotgun.
I'm an avid shooter and firearms collector and don't see the value in even more useless anti-gun laws that criminals
could care less about.
Any schizophrenic that has not been involunarily committed to an instituion can buy a gun & ammo at Walmart
and commit mayhem.
Our culture does have a "gun problem" but the greater evil is a problem deep in the heart of our society.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
I have heard it said that "guns don't kill people....people kill people". But isn't it true that "people with guns and short fuses, kill more people than anyone?"

How often do troubled kids and mentally unbalanced individuals have to kill a bunch of other people before someone says..."well, maybe your gun laws need to change"? Would crims feel so empowered by knives or bats? Guns require so little effort.

After the Sandy Hook shootings we (Aussies) were aghast to hear people suggesting more guns would solve the problem....let's arm the teachers! :eek:

How can anyone feel safe in a country where most of the people are packin' deadly weapons? That the angry person who enters a crowded place may decide to shoot people at random, for no apparent reason? It happens in the US far too often.

I have never even seen a small handgun except on TV. I do not feel threatened or fear being attacked where I live so I am not sure what this says about America?
Are you all really that paranoid? Do you have reason to live in that kind of fear? How do you fix that kind of problem?

Maybe Sees is right....maybe it's a mix of subcultures, poor education and lack of respect for fellow human beings.
The gun culture is deeply ingrained.....those of us who do not live in the US find it hard to understand.

How many of you have seen the Michael Moore doco "Bowling for Columbine"? That was a bit of an eye opener for me.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let's not kid ourselves, guns are far more deadly than bats and knives, plus they can be used at a much greater distance. Since the FBI estimates that we have almost 300,000,000 guns in American society, how is it that with all these guns that we have the highest homicide rate as compared to the next 19 most industrialized societies? Canada and France are quite multicultural, and yet they only have a fraction of the homicide rate that we do.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Let's not kid ourselves, guns are far more deadly than bats and knives, plus they can be used at a much greater distance. Since the FBI estimates that we have almost 300,000,000 guns in American society, how is it that with all these guns that we have the highest homicide rate as compared to the next 19 most industrialized societies? Canada and France are quite multicultural, and yet they only have a fraction of the homicide rate that we do.

Actually we fall somewhere in the center as far as other nations go by way of homicides.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Actually we fall somewhere in the center as far as other nations go by way of homicides.
But not with the 20 most industrialized. We have four times the Canadian rate, and roughly seven times the French and British rates, for examples, the last time I checked. It's been a while since I checked the more recent stats out, so that I'll do a bit later today as I have to leave shortly.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Most people can agree that mental illness and firearms are a dangerous combination. We need to develop legal ways to block people with serious mental problems from obtaining or possessing guns.

And gun owners need to step up to their responsibilities and not allow mentally ill friends or relatives access to guns.

Rights always come with responsibilities. Perhaps we need a national campaign supporting gun owner responsibilities as well as gun owner rights.

We definitely need a return to stronger values. We resort to violent rhetoric, violent language and violent actions too quickly and too easily. We get the things that we encourage or tolerate. And in America today, we are getting too much violence.



Paul Pastor
Sheriff of Pierce County
Pierce County, WA - Official Website - Issues In Gun Ownership

The Sheriff makes great points.
"return to stronger values"; "mental illness and guns..................".
30 years ago the dnagerouly mentally ill were place in hospital environment with communites of seriously mentally ill.
Medication was given daily thus the ill person could not just stop taking it which leads to many problems including violence.

Countries with a high homicide by gun rate: Number of dead vs. per 100,000-stats are incomlete. Some listed by years-some mixed years.
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Starting with the U.S.A, which by no means is the highest reporting gun deaths-includes homocide and suicide.
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States 10.30 (2011) per 100,00 (2011 was a very bad year)
23px-Flag_of_Venezuela.svg.png
Venezuela 50.90 (mixed years)

23px-Flag_of_Swaziland.svg.png
Swaziland 37.16 (incomplete) (where ever that is?)
South Africa 21.51 (mixed years)
Mexico 11.17 (mixed years)
Jamaica 39.74 (mixed years,incomplete) (this surprised me!)
Guatemala 36.38 (incomplete)
Brazil 19.03 (mixed years)
Argentina 10.05 (mixed years)

Lesson? Stats can be manipulated. Don't jump to conclusions prior to investigation. (we all do that but it ain't right)

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which can not fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
--HERBERT SPENCER
Clearly there are countries with a death by gun rate much higher than the U.S.
Venezuela surpised me with a death by gun rate 5 X more than the U.S.
Austrailias death by gun rate is almost non existant with 0.86 per 100,000.
Of course very, very, few people are allowed so much as an air rifle without special permits.
America gets a lot of attention simply because the U.S. rose to the #1 world power in about 200 years.
The U.S. has a LOT of problems.
Americans consume huge amounts of illegal mind, mood altering drugs.
Consumes huge amounts of petroleum.
American values have plumeted to all time lows.
Just like every other nation on this trouble earth.
America is the largest consumer of petroleum and the largest producer of petroleum.
China and Japan closely follow America as an oil consumer.
I feel the world is a huge chamber pot about to get pooped on.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
No, the US does not have a "gun problem". The US has a problem with those that can not differentiate between law-abiding firearms owners and those who do not adhere to laws governing firearm ownership.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Part of it is cultural, I think. I grew up in a rural Midwestern county where nearly everyone owned guns, and that had one murder in 125 years until the 1970s. Then things began to change. But whether the issue is cultural or not, we have a gun problem in this country. Guns make it easier to wound or kill people. In a sense, they're like pouring gasoline on a fire.

Upon relflection I remember when I was about 12 that every boy that hunted was excused from school on the fist day of hunting season to go hunting with dad, grandpa, uncle, etc.
We could take a gun into school for "show and tell", the gun was inspected by the principal to ensure it wasn't loaded.
When I was about 16 I would walk a couple miles into the nearby small city to meet with a school mate.
We would walk thru town carrying our shotguns in plain sight to the other edge of town where we had permission
to hunt rabbits on an abandoned farm.
I grew up with guns in the home and hunting was part of our culture.
No one thought a thing of two boys walking thru town carrying a shotgun. No one called police.
I wouldn't want to do that these days.
Today gun sales are at record highs. People with concealed carry permits are considered kind of normal.
People carry guns because they are afraid of criminals and terrorists.
I think doing such creates a sense of false security.
Few people know that in the 1920's and early 30's a farmer (or anyone else) could by a Tommy gun from the local
hardware store with no paper work involved.
The Gun Control Act of 1968 was a knee jerk reaction to the assassination of President Kennedy.
Gun violence in American is at an all time high and growing. so are gun sales. Stats don't tell much but gun violence is often
black on black crime with Chicago leading the nation in blacks killing blacks.
If one were to map every city with very strict gun laws then draw a map of every city with a very high
gun crime rate the maps were overlap.
Still gun crimes rise in those cities despite strict gun laws.
I see the gun violence as a sign of a country with disintigrating moral values.
Most all mass murders buy gun are committed by the seriously mentally ill that are either
undiagnosed or somehow "slipped thru the cracks" avoiding restrictions to keep the dangerously menally ill from
obtaining a firearm. The Sandy Hook horrible murders of little children was committed by a paranoid schizophrenic.
He was not permitted to even touch a firearm. So where did he get the thing?
His mother bought it for him and she was the first person he murdered.
I have no clear answers to this murder by gun problem but I get the feeling that family morality has
fallen by the wayside.
I hate to say "look at the parents" as it seems too simplistic, but look at the parents.
Lack of moral values are part of the problem.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The NRA mantra that only a good man with a gun can stop a bad man with a gun appeals to the base, but ignores the fact that so many homicides are the result of someone losing their temper, accidental shootings, and suicides.

If I had kept a loaded gun in my house, my son would be dead (he's bipolar, and twice tried committing suicide by cutting himself-- that was almost 30 years ago, and now he's a successful businessman with a loyal wife and a child). According to numerous studies, keeping a loaded gun in the house for most people in most locations is taking one helluva chance.

BTW, the Israelis think we're nuts here in the States by having so many carry guns without being very carefully checked, and I do think they know something about carrying guns.
 
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