1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Does the U.S. allow War Crimes in Palestine?!?!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Moonjuice, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    324
    Ratings:
    +310
    Religion:
    Skeptic
    I'm an average U.S. born American, whose descendants came to the U.S. so many generations ago that I have no idea why they risked it all to come here in the first place. I have to admit, I am not well versed in the details of the Israel/Palestine conflict. All I know is that in the old testament, the Jews are instructed by god to murder and/or enslave anyone who is already living in the land that God is telling them they can have. Entire civilizations of humans were wiped out by the "chosen people" according to the OT. I also know that the US supports Israel, though I never knew why. That is about the end of my education on Israel.

    Thanks to the Joe Rogan podcast, I recently heard about a documentary you can watch on YouTube (among other places) called "Gaza Fights For Freedom". This tells a story from the Palestine perspective. Evidently, the Palestinian side of the story is NEVER told in mainstream American media. I have only ever known that we support Israel. Since we are the good guys and we support the good guys, the Palestinians must be the bad guys. However, now that I have watched this documentary, I'm not so sure the U.S. media portrayal is accurate. Are we really being told the real story?

    Be warned, this was very hard to watch.

    Without any real understanding of the history or the details of this conflict, having watched this documentary, I can tell you that Israel is literally MURDERING children, women, members of the press, medical first responders. They commit actual war crimes and the US supports it. We are not talking about bombs that go array and accidently kill innocent people (collateral damage), I'm talking about snipers shooting medical personal. Journalists. Children. Women. It is absolutely disgusting and I am ashamed the U.S. supports this kind of treatment of our fellow humans.

    Based on race and religion, Israel is slowly exterminating all the people that used to be the country of Palestine, just like God told them to do 4,000 years ago. Now, Palestinians have been pushed back (lands stolen, just like the U.S. did to Native Americans) and are currently stuck in a tiny place called Gaza, where they are not allowed to leave. Imagine that! Your country is occupied by an oppressor, and you can't move anywhere to try and make a better life for your family. You are permanently locked in. You have no way to make a living. You survive on the aid Israel (U.S.) gives you. Gaza is no different than German concentration camp, except that there are no gas chambers.

    If you have watched this documentary, I'd love your feedback. I know this is totally one sided, but its the side we have never heard from before. Has anyone else been completely surprised by seeing the other side of the story? I am in a state of disbelief. Like when I found out the Easter bunny isn't real.

    Check it out for yourself.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,713
    Ratings:
    +1,327
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    • Funny thing is many Palestinians are probably descendants of Jews living in the land. Some Jews were forcefully converted to Islam by the Ottoman empire.
    • Secondly many Christians around the world support the Israeli Zionism including pushing out Palestinians but ignore the plight of fellow Christian Palestinians. Strange choice really.
    • Third point I've heard stories of Palestinians being used as target practice by some in the IDF. This is of course not going to be admitted too.

    That being said I think it's important to hear both sides of the story. Although it's true the Palestinians in Gaza are basically in a prison ... yet if you were an Israeli you would probably still support the wall because of the suicide bombers and other attacks on Israelis. Besides, Palestinians try to bombard the Israelis with rockets every chance they get. They also are busy digging tunnels not to escape; but to attack the Israelis. Finally, strategically speaking for Israel to give up certain points of land would be suicidal if they ever faced a war on multiple fronts again like the 6 days war or the Yom Kippur war. Just something to think about. It's not all one sided. It's a really complex situation with bad people on both sides and a lot of innocent people caught in the middle.

    The Palestinians are not going to stop being hostile even if they do get more land and the Israelis aren't going to give up the land they've gained so far either way. So it's unknown what will happen in the future. The situation seems untenable to be honest.

    edit: these are my thoughts before watching the video. I'll see if my view changes at all after watching it.
     
    #2 74x12, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  3. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    61,940
    Ratings:
    +30,041
    Religion:
    Love
    There is no black and white there.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  4. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    37,568
    Ratings:
    +16,025
    Religion:
    Philosophical Buddhism
    It does seem ironic that a people so horribly brutalized by the Nazis, would then themselves become portrayed as the brutalizer.

    Still, there's two sides to every coin and it seems there are plenty of faults to be had in terms of warfare and ROE.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    21,178
    Ratings:
    +14,054
    Religion:
    atheist
    It's absolutely worth trying to understand both sides of that conflict. Couple of quick points;

    It seems almost certain that not only are the US (and Australia) aware of war crimes being committed in the Middle East, but they themselves are committing them (As in, individual soldiers, or groups of soldiers. Arguments can be made about state-sanctioned things, most likely, but let's just keep to what's 'known').

    If that is the case, would we really assume Israeli soldiers don't?
    And is there a reason to think Palestinians don't?

    In truth, all war is horrible, but the sort of long-term generational conflict that is going on in the Middle East is by far the most effective way of dehumanising ethnic or religious groups to other ethnic or religious groups.
    I'm not suggesting 'it's all just a mess, and everyone is equally culpable'. Moreso just that there is no clearcut 'good' side. There is also an absolute ton of misinformation in general circulation, so even with the best of intentions, working out what (exactly) is real is night on impossible.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Justanatheist

    Justanatheist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2021
    Messages:
    1,114
    Ratings:
    +1,071
    Religion:
    None
    Just a couple of things to help you out, There has never been a country called Palestine, it was part of the Ottoman Empire until the British and Arabs defeated the Ottoman Empire in WW1. The British as part of the winning powers created The Mandate for Palestine after WW1 until Israel was created unilaterally in 1948 when the British withdrew.

    The occupied territories are East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza, the West Bank is by far the biggest.
     
  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    33,082
    Ratings:
    +13,763
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    Without knowing the details of the video, I found this by John Stossel about the presenter Abby Martin. She's apparently got a reputation for distributing skewed facts, was a presenter for Russian TV News service.
    JOHN STOSSEL: Meet Abby Martin, teleSUR's useful idiot

    I'm going to skim the video and look at the text. I don't believe at all that Israel is exterminating anybody. Why? The propagandists been crying "Extermination!" against Israel for twenty years, but the population just keeps going up. That's not extermination.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,259
    Ratings:
    +1,878
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You mean the war crimes that only exist in heads of Jew haters?
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  9. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    8,450
    Ratings:
    +4,507
    Religion:
    Theism+Jesus(pbuh) influenced by....... Taoism and Buddhism
    Some Jews in Israel love to hate Palestinians, and they act out of hatred towards them, hence the many war crimes, on both sides, but the Israeli side kills a lot more innocent civilians and destroys 1000 times as much property of Palestinians
     
    #9 Lyndon, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  10. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    324
    Ratings:
    +310
    Religion:
    Skeptic
    I’d challenge you to watch the whole thing. Then decide if what you see isn’t absolutely insane. Prepare yourself to see some horrific stuff. If what the documentary shows is true, then what you have found guys like John Stossel (who is Jewish) commenting is exactly what you will find.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    324
    Ratings:
    +310
    Religion:
    Skeptic
    Gotcha. Looks like this documentary was focused directly at the people living in Gaza.
     
  12. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    324
    Ratings:
    +310
    Religion:
    Skeptic
    Maybe war crimes is too harsh? How about murdering unarmed women and children. How about singling out people based on race and religion and removing them from their homes? Locking them in a small area so they cannot travel freely? I remember when powerful country did that to Jewish people and we helped end that. Now that the shoe appears to be on the other foot, suddenly it’s all in the imagination of the survivors. What a sad situation.
     
  13. Moonjuice

    Moonjuice In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2021
    Messages:
    324
    Ratings:
    +310
    Religion:
    Skeptic
    I totally agree. But at the moment, at least based on what the documentary showed in Gaza, the coin doesn’t have another side. Those people are totally doomed. They have no hope of any future at all. Really sad.
     
  14. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    33,082
    Ratings:
    +13,763
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I admire your compassion, and I understand your questioning John Stossel though he is not an Israeli.

    I did look at the documentary some. They aren't being exterminated, but the documentary says they are. This is an old song. Somehow they have been exterminated hundreds of times since I was a child. They're exterminated and genocided regularly yet seem to continue to grow in population. They are living under a military blockade, and they don't like it. This blockade is there not to exterminate them but for some reason that is not being expressed. Instead it is being hidden and presented as extermination. I tire of their constant claims of extermination where there is none. Let them be honest and say what the situation actually is. Its a blockade, and while I'm sure its not great its not extermination.

    There is a reason that Egypt also doesn't want Gazans crossing its border. Does the presentation address this reason? Probably not.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,001
    Ratings:
    +7,079
    Religion:
    none
    (Can't view the video but I've seen similar in the past.)

    There are no "good ones" in the Palestine-Israel conflict. Both sides are equally guilty and equally unwilling to end the conflict. Supporting either side is being complicit in war and war crimes. I have no sympathy for either side. I have sympathy for the people who get caught in the conflict without being responsible, on both sides.
     
Loading...