Does the rapture doctrine "fly" with Biblical teachings and other LDS scriptures ???

[Comprehend]

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

but I thought all of God's people were going to be eating wedding cake on another planet because of the rapture? Who are the *elect* that God is saving? How can the elect still be on the earth if they are safely watching from the moon?

 

[FFH]

LOL. okey dokey. I have a few questions:

1. what reference is there for the 620 BC date?
2. what website did you get this marvelous information from?
3. so NOTHING at all happened in 671A.D.? So Daniel missed it by 20 years? oops!
4. what evidence do you have that priests fled with the ark?
5. why would you start over with 1335 years rather than just take the additional 45?
6. why didn't anything happen in 2006?
7. the bible code revealed 2006 as the date for what exactly?
8. can you tell me where any of this was talked about in LDS General Conference? I know that you have told me multiple times that you don't believe anything not said in conference, so lets see your conference quotes.
9. are you trying to repeat the magic of the millerites on purpose or is it all a coincidence?
10. Does Far From Home indicate that you are from another planet???

Wow, it was just one person's assessment of Daniel's prophecies and just speculaion...there are others that deal with this.

The point was to show that these prophecies of Daniel have dual fulfillments both in history and in the future...

I'm not going to defend anothers writings just going to post it for what it's worth to someone reading it...

The significant event that happened in 2006 should be obvious.

President Mahmoud of Iran gave several threats of wiping Israel off the map, which is in direct fulfillment of Daniels prophecy of an abomination that makes desolate...

This is usually attributed to an image that will be set up in a newly built Jewish temple which the final antichrist desicrates by setting up an image to his God in place of Jewish traditional sacrifices....

Okay no more Greek, but if you focus on the wording the "abomination that makes desolate" it gives a clue as to what or who this is, for instance President Mahmoud could be attributed as being the abomination that makes Israel desolate.

If I were a Jew living in Israel I would get out of there before things got worse.

Have we not already seen parts of Israel being sold off in the name of keeping the peace with their neighbors and Jewish residents forced off their land???

This is only the beginning of woes Jesus spoke of...

 

[Comprehend]

Wow, it was just one person's assessment of Daniel's prophecies and just speculaion...there are others that deal with this.

The point was to show that these prophecies of Daniel have dual fulfillments both in history and in the future...

I'm not going to defend anothers writings just going to post it for what it's worth to someone reading it...

The significant event that happened in 2006 should be obvious.

President Mahmoud of Iran gave several threats of wiping Israel off the map, which is in direct fulfillment of Daniels prophecy of an abomination that makes desolate...

This is usually attributed to an image that will be set up in a newly built Jewish temple which the final antichrist desicrates by setting up an image to his God in place of Jewish traditional sacrifices....

Okay no more Greek, but if you focus on the wording the "abomination that makes desolate" it gives a clue as to what or who this is, for instance President Mahmoud could be attributed as being the abomination that makes Israel desolate.

If I were a Jew living in Israel I would get out of there before things got worse.

Have we not already seen parts of Israel being sold off in the name of keeping the peace with their neighbors and Jewish residents forced off their land???

This is only the beginning of woes Jesus spoke of...

and why is it that you are so ready to believe any crack-headed idea that you read on the internet but not what your own prophets and apostles have said?

 

[FFH]

but I thought all of God's people were going to be eating wedding cake on another planet because of the rapture? Who are the *elect* that God is saving? How can the elect still be on the earth if they are safely watching from the moon?

I knew you would ask that, and I'm well aware of this statement by the Savior.

All I can say is this either applies to the Jews (who are the elect of God) who will not accept the Messiah when he comes the first time and thus will be "left behind" to deal with the antichrist and the final tribulation, or it actually does refer to us and we will be here until the bitter end...

Remember these prophecies deal mainly with the Jews and their persecutions heaped upon them in the last days.....This is really not dealing with the average Christian who has already accepted Christ, but applies mainly to the Jews who have not accepted Christ as of yet.

 

[Comprehend]

I knew you would ask that, and I'm well aware of this statement by the Savior.

All I can say is this either applies to the Jews (who are the elect of God) who will not accept the Messiah when he comes the first time and thus will be "left behind" to deal with the antichrist and the final tribulation, or it actually does refer to us and we will be here until the bitter end...

Remember these prophecies deal mainly with the Jews and their persecutions heaped upon them in the last days.....This is really not dealing with the average Christian who has already accepted Christ, but applies mainly to the Jews who have not accepted Christ as of yet.

If the Jews are God's elect then why would he save the Christians and leave his elect to suffer?

If these prophecies deal mainly with the Jews then why are you applying them to Christianity?

 

[FFH]

and why is it that you are so ready to believe any crack-headed idea that you read on the internet but not what your own prophets and apostles have said?

I've listened to the General Authorities and they have also gone into detail about Daniel's prophecies concerning the last days. There are some good talks but they are not going to go into detail about Jewish history, which should be left up to history scholars...

There is so much to learn about this and there is no way a General Conference talk will ever get into the kind of detail we are talking about, it's just not going to happen...

We should search it out ourselves and ask the spirit to direct us to truth...

I've gathered information from all sources and then read Daniel and then try to put the picture together and it becomes clearer and clearer as I gather more and more info concerning this and as we near the literal fulfillment of these prophecies...

The Gulf War for instance is in Revelation as clear as day, which talks of a 9 month war...

 

[FFH]

If the Jews are God's elect then why would he save the Christians and leave his elect to suffer?

Because they have not accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah as of yet..

If these prophecies deal mainly with the Jews then why are you applying them to Christianity?

Are we not directly linked with the Jews as Christians for they gave us the Old Testament....

These prophecies are measured in Biblical/Jewish calendar years and directly affect us as Christians and we will continue to defend Israel until the bitter end or until we leave this planet and they are left to fend for themselves. This is where people tend to disagree about the whole pre/mid/post trib thing

This is all Biblcaly sound doctrine, which is spoken of in Revelation and in the Joseph Smith translation, for it says Christ will descend with his tens of thousands when he returns to earth, with all of us, after he has "trodden the winepress alone" in defending the Jews in the last days and in the final battle of Armageddon....

 

[FFH]

the bible code revealed 2006 as the date for what exactly?

The opening of the first of seven seals in Revelation or the start of the 7 year tribulation....

The jury's still out on this one...I think we saw a taste of what the beginning of the final 7 years may hold, based on Mahmoud's threats this past year against Israel, but it wasn't actually the start of the final 7 years or was it...

Was Mahmoud's threats just a taste, or a warning, of the destruction that will suddenly come upon Israel in the last days and more specifically Jerusalem and the Jews ???

Is Mahmoud the "abomination" that makes Israel/Jerusalem "desolate"....

 

[FFH]

Does Far From Home indicate that you are from another planet???

Pretty much...

 

[*Paul*]

*Paul*,

You do know the history of the doctrine you espouse don't you? And that even the person who first taught it never claimed it was based on Scripture?

I have no idea, i simply examine it against the bible and i think it makes perfect sense. The rapture is undeniable, when it will happen in relation to the tribulation and second coming is debateable. One thing is for sure the rapture and the second coming are not the same event because they are too contradictory.

Do you have any explanation (other than the obvious one which Derby himself admitted) as to why it took 1800 years for anyone to notice this if it really is such an obvious doctrine?

Maybe it was sealed.
Dan 12v8: And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
Dan 12v9: And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12v10: Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

Personally, I find it spiritually dangerous to believe as you do as it can lead to a certain arrogance and self-righteousness that is the antithesis of the attitude a Christian should have (an arrogance exemplified by many of its most vocal proponents, though I don't doubt that there are those who manage to avoid it).

How is it spiritually dangerous and lead to arrogance or self righteousness? You could say the same about works based righteousness or adding your own works to the atonement for salvation surely that is more likely to lead to self righteousness than believing that Jesus wil lreturn for His church and remove them from the earth while Gods wrath is poured out on the earth and antichrist is ruling. What teachers are you calling arrogant? I certainly agree that it is not something that should emanate from a Christian.

The only modern doctrine I find even more dangerous is OSAS, to be honest. Both seem like the height of spiritual deception to me.

I can see why you could say that was spiritually dangerous though it is something i believe. But we both believe each other are spiritually decieved but i am always willing to listen.

 

[FFH]

Here's a good site that explains the 70 week prophecy...

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0028.html

 

[Comprehend]

Here's a good site that explains the 70 week prophecy...

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/faqs/faq_0028.html

can you find something that was in general conference? I just don't believe any random website, and since you have made general conference your standard for truth or not. I will make you stick to it. So how about it? What do you have from General Conference?

Or Bible Code, of course everyone believes the bible code... do you have anything there?

 

[FFH]

can you find something that was in general conference? I just don't believe any random website, and since you have made general conference your standard for truth or not. I will make you stick to it. So how about it? What do you have from General Conference?

I had that coming.

I have something better than Conference, the scriptures...

From the previously posted article:

Will He come for His church (Bride) before the 70th Week begins? Will He come at the end of the 70th Week? Will he come sometime during the 70th Week? A face-value reading of the Scripture clearly reveals that Christ comes sometime during the second half of the 70th Week. Jesus taught that in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24). Paul taught that in his writings (1 Thes. 4 and 5; 2 Thes. 2). Jesus taught that in Revelation 6 - 8.

Is Daniel's "70 Week" prophecy nearly completed? Yes. The first sixty-nine prophetic years are now history and the 70th Week could begin virtually overnight.

 

[Comprehend]

I had that coming.

I have something better than Conference, the scriptures...

From the previously posted article:

that is just your interpretation, it may be correct and it may not. Have any prophets or general authorities said something like this in Conference?

 

[FFH]

that is just your interpretation, it may be correct and it may not. Have any prophets or general authorities said something like this in Conference?

I'm sure If I did a search nothing specific would come up, just general scriptures references to Daniel.