Does the Qur’an really have errors?

[ACEofALLaces]

I disagree. Christians don't leave Christianity because of anachronisms, contradictions, silly myths and errors of geography.

You're bringing a lot of assumptions with your bias.

I disagree with your disagreement, in that I have been acquainted with a good number of "EX-Christians", who left because of, but not JUST, the anachronisms, contradictions, silly myths, but ALSO the sheer ridiculousness of some of those better-known stories and myths....all the while having been perpetated by a loooving and all-knowing God.....who has a "PLAN", for crying out loud.

Yeah, I guess I could say at the present time that I am somewhat biased against the Christian religion. I wasn't ALWAYS that way, but the more I read and hear about it, the more "biased" I become.

 

[ManSinha]

View attachment 28515

I believe this is why we see what we see in today's world

And which Islamic hate website did you get that quote off of?

We have dissected those and thrown them aside as fallacious and even downright deliberate misinterpretation in another thread - I could sit and say the "the god of the bible commanded the killing of innocent women and children" based off cherry picking a few sentences from the OT - how accurate would that claim be?

Joshua 6:17-21
Deuteronomy 20:17

 

[Cleary]

And which Islamic hate website did you get that quote off of?

We have dissected those and thrown them aside as fallacious and even downright deliberate misinterpretation in another thread - I could sit and say the "the god of the bible commanded the killing of innocent women and children" based off cherry picking a few sentences from the OT - how accurate would that claim be?

you talkn to me ???? ... better for you to be out there convincing your 'Islamic brethren' of the 'interpretation mistakes' they're making
seems to all the evidence is on the table < 300 dead in Shri Lanka

 

[ACEofALLaces]

I could sit and say the "the god of the bible commanded the killing of innocent women and children" based off cherry picking a few sentences from the OT - how accurate would that claim be?

Actually, from what I have read of the Christian Bible, it is MOST accurate....and not only on one occasion, but multiple occasions where innocent children are snuffed out of existence, due to some issue that God has with the adults.

 

[ManSinha]

you talkn to me ???? ... better for you to be out there convincing your 'Islamic brethren' of the 'interpretation mistakes' they're making
seems to all the evidence is on the table < 300 dead in Shri Lanka

They are not my islamic brethren in the first place - get your facts straight

I have no love lost for those that commit the crimes in the name of god - but you are making a connection that is not there

A lot of those that claim to have been inspired by the Qu'ran are illiterate / have no knowledge of what is actually said in there / have been brainwashed - I was one of the first to argue that it is up to the larger Muslim community to choke off funding for these splinter groups and starve them out of existence. While they may get their "inspiration" from somewhere they still need $$ to buy materials / weapons - let us be practical here.

Islam is poised to be the world's largest religion by 2050 - you hating on it via a faceless post in an internet forum is not going to do anything in the larger scheme of things.

Actually, from what I have read of the Christian Bible, it is MOST accurate

That is not true Take the verse from Joshua 6:17-21

The Canaanites were not destroyed and their descendants continue to exist to this day - so either Joshua failed at what he was asked to do - or the whole thing is a bit of an allegorical story that never really happened.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Look at the replies from @Tony Bristow-Stagg and @loverofhumanity - both apologetics in chief on this board. From what I have seen they consider the prophets / manifestations and their writings to be "perfect" and will not countenance any other argument.

A Messenger brings a Message from God, that Message is suited to the age it is given and also includes the timeless advice. As such everything a Messenger says and does has a meaning.

If you wish to understand where @loverofhumanity and I draw this certainty from, then I offer this passage from Baha'u'llah, applicable to all Messengers and Prophets from God.

"Blessed is the man that hath acknowledged his belief in God and in His signs, and recognized that “He shall not be asked of His doings.” Such a recognition hath been made by God the ornament of every belief, and its very foundation. Upon it must depend the acceptance of every goodly deed. Fasten your eyes upon it, that haply the whisperings of the rebellious may not cause you to slip.
Were He to decree as lawful the thing which from time immemorial had been forbidden, and forbid that which had, at all times, been regarded as lawful, to none is given the right to question His authority. Whoso will hesitate, though it be for less than a moment, should be regarded as a transgressor.
Whoso hath not recognized this sublime and fundamental verity, and hath failed to attain this most exalted station, the winds of doubt will agitate him, and the sayings of the infidels will distract his soul. He that hath acknowledged this principle will be endowed with the most perfect constancy. All honor to this all-glorious station, the remembrance of which adorneth every exalted Tablet. Such is the teaching which God bestoweth on you, a teaching that will deliver you from all manner of doubt and perplexity, and enable you to attain unto salvation in both this world and in the next. He, verily, is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Bountiful."

I have no other motivation but that my heart tells me God is all knowing and that all God offers is Truth. That truth given in a way that we always have to examine our heart. If we do not see all but Love and Virtue, that is because our heart still contains darkness.

To me, for us in this life it will always be a work in progress. I see it will also progress as per God's bounty and Grace in our life to come.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Here is a reasonable list of scientific errors in the Quran;
Scientific Errors in the Qur'an - WikiIslam

I believe that any truthful person who removes biases from themselves will see that the Quran does contain scientific errors after reading the link provided.

Baha’u’llah, in His Book of Certitude explains many verses of the Holy Quran, that the Words are of God but not properly understood. Here are some examples. The Quran has no errors. The only errors are mans finite understanding being unable to grasp it all.

“None knoweth the interpretation thereof but God and they that are well-grounded in knowledge.”
And when He Who is well-grounded in all knowledge, He Who is the Mother, the Soul, the Secret, and the Essence thereof, revealeth that which is the least contrary to their desire, they bitterly oppose Him and shamelessly deny Him”

“By the terms “sun” and “moon,” mentioned in the writings of the Prophets of God, is not meant solely the sun and moon of the visible universe. Nay rather, manifold are the meanings they have intended for these terms. In every instance they have attached to them a particular significance.”

“On the contrary, by the term “earth” is meant the earth of understanding and knowledge, and by “heavens” the heavens of divine Revelation. ,”

The Kitáb-i-Íqán
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Cleary]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2208246786103749

 

[Trailblazer]

Pure nonsense not worth wasting time on refuting this deplorable condescension.

The Quran has no errors whatsoever. Neither did Muhammad ever err once. These are people who just want to incite hatred against Muslims and its people like these that are spreading hatred in our world.

People can interpret scriptures and distort them to MEAN anything they want them to mean.

Maybe Christians are just a little worried or jealous... After all, Islam is projected to grow faster than any other major religion, and If current trends continue, by 2050 the number of Muslims will nearly equal the number of Christians around the world.

The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010-2050

And eventually, Christianity will be a thing of the past. After everyone in the world recognizes Baha'u'llah there will be only One religion, the religion of God.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

 

[ManSinha]

A Messenger brings a Message from God, that Message is suited to the age it is given and also includes the timeless advice. As such everything a Messenger says and does has a meaning.

If you wish to understand where @loverofhumanity and I draw this certainty from, then I offer this passage from Baha'u'llah, applicable to all Messengers and Prophets from God.

"Blessed is the man that hath acknowledged his belief in God and in His signs, and recognized that “He shall not be asked of His doings.” Such a recognition hath been made by God the ornament of every belief, and its very foundation. Upon it must depend the acceptance of every goodly deed. Fasten your eyes upon it, that haply the whisperings of the rebellious may not cause you to slip.
Were He to decree as lawful the thing which from time immemorial had been forbidden, and forbid that which had, at all times, been regarded as lawful, to none is given the right to question His authority. Whoso will hesitate, though it be for less than a moment, should be regarded as a transgressor.
Whoso hath not recognized this sublime and fundamental verity, and hath failed to attain this most exalted station, the winds of doubt will agitate him, and the sayings of the infidels will distract his soul. He that hath acknowledged this principle will be endowed with the most perfect constancy. All honor to this all-glorious station, the remembrance of which adorneth every exalted Tablet. Such is the teaching which God bestoweth on you, a teaching that will deliver you from all manner of doubt and perplexity, and enable you to attain unto salvation in both this world and in the next. He, verily, is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Bountiful."

I have no other motivation but that my heart tells me God is all knowing and that all God offers is Truth. That truth given in a way that we always have to examine our heart. If we do not see all but Love and Virtue, that is because our heart still contains darkness.

To me, for us in this life it will always be a work in progress. I see it will also progress as per God's bounty and Grace in our life to come.

Regards Tony

Baha’u’llah, in His Book of Certitude explains many verses of the Holy Quran, that the Words are of God but not properly understood. Here are some examples. The Quran has no errors. The only errors are mans finite understanding being unable to grasp it all.

“None knoweth the interpretation thereof but God and they that are well-grounded in knowledge.”[166] And when He Who is well-grounded in all knowledge, He Who is the Mother, the Soul, the Secret, and the Essence thereof, revealeth that which is the least contrary to their desire, they bitterly oppose Him and shamelessly deny Him”

“By the terms “sun” and “moon,” mentioned in the writings of the Prophets of God, is not meant solely the sun and moon of the visible universe. Nay rather, manifold are the meanings they have intended for these terms. In every instance they have attached to them a particular significance.”

“On the contrary, by the term “earth” is meant the earth of understanding and knowledge, and by “heavens” the heavens of divine Revelation. ,”

The Kitáb-i-Íqán
Bahá’u’lláh

Hey guys - just one request - please do not quote the Baha'i writings at me when you are trying to make a point - as I have said - the ramblings of an insecure man who is self glorifying and tried to make himself an incarnation of not one but three established religions - none of which will have anything to do with him - has not an iota of respectability in my eyes

I have seen you guys try to duck and weave in order to try and justify issues that were plain as day to everyone else. Between allegory and symbolism I really do not know what you believe and what you don't.

 

[Cleary]

Just a few ...................................................

The Koran's 164 Jihad Verses
Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.
Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Excerpt K 2:193-194
Set 3, Count 5+6 [193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you...
Excerpt K 2:216-218
Set 4, Count 7-9 [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you...[2.217]... fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter...persecution is graver than slaughter... [2.218]...strove hard in the way of Allah...
Excerpt K 2:244
Set 5, Count 10 ...fight in the way of Allah
Excerpt K 3:121-126
Set 6, Count 11-16 [3.121]...to lodge the believers in encampments for war...[3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]...[3.123]...Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr...[3.124]...[3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] ...victory is only from Allah...
Excerpt K 3:140-143
Set 7, Count 17-20 [3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you...[3.141] ...that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes!
Excerpt K 3:146
Set 8, Count 21 Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah's way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 3:152-158
Set 9, Count 22-28 [3.152]...you slew them by His [Allah's] permission [during a Jihad battle]...[3.153] Pickthall: ...the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)...that which ye missed [war spoils]...[3.154]...They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...[3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met...[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain...[3.157]...if you are slain in the way of Allah...mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allahshall you be gathered together.
Excerpt K 3:165-167
Set 10, Count 29-31 [3.165]...you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]...[3.166]...when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)...[3.167]...Come, fight in Allah's way, or defend yourselves...If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you...
Excerpt K 3:169
Set 11, Count 32 ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
Excerpt K 3:172-173
Set 12, Count 33+34 [3.172] ...those who responded (at [the Battle of] Uhud) to the call of Allah and the Apostle after a wound had befallen them...shall have a great reward. [3.173] Those to whom the people said: Surely men have gathered against you [in battle], therefore fear them, but this increased their faith, and they said: Allah is sufficient for us and most excellent is the Protector.
Excerpt K 3:195
Set 13, Count 35 ...who fought and were slain...I will most certainly make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; a reward from Allah, and with Allah is yet better reward.
Excerpt K 4:071-072
Set 14, Count 36+37 [4.71] ...go forth in detachments or go forth in a body [to war]. [4.72] ...hang back [from Jihad] ...not present with them [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 4:074-077
Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?...
Excerpt K 4:084
Set 16, Count 42 Fight then in Allah's way...rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve...
Excerpt K 4:089-091
Set 17, Count 43-45 [4.89] ...take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...
Excerpt K 4:094-095
Set 18, Count 46+47 [4.94]...when you go to war in Allah's way... [4.95] ...those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal...Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back a mighty reward.
Excerpt K 4:100-104
Set 19, Count 48-52 ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...
Excerpt K 4:141
Set 20, Count 53 Sher Ali:...If you have a victory [in Jihad] from Allah...
Excerpt K 5:033
Set 21, Count 54 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned [Pickthall and Yusuf Ali have "exiled" rather than "imprisoned"]
Excerpt K 5:035
Set 22, Count 55 ...strive hard [at Jihad] in His way that you may be successful.
Excerpt K 5:082
Set 23, Count 56 ...you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews [compare with "whenever Jews kindle fire for war, Allah [Muslims] puts it out" (K 005:064)] and those who are polytheists [while they are converted to Islam on pain of death]...
Excerpt K 8:001
Set 24, Count 57 Pickthall: ...the spoils of war...The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger
Excerpt K 8:005
Set 25, Count 58 Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse;
Excerpt K 8:007
Set 26, Count 59 ...Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers.
Excerpt K 8:009-010
Set 27, Count 60+61 [8.9]...I will assist you [in Jihad] with a thousand of the angels following one another [see K 008:012]. [8.10] ...Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Excerpt K 8:012
Set 28, Count 62 ...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Excerpt K 8:015-017
Set 29, Count 63-65 [8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]... ......... continue >

 

[ManSinha]

After everyone in the world recognizes Baha'u'llah there will be only One religion, the religion of God.

Now you are dreaming or delusional - that will never happen - that much I can tell you - you forget there are well over a billion dharmics who decidedly have a wider range of beliefs and a different perspective - and I do not see christianity and islam giving way either - much more likely - baha'ism may be confined to a few in several decades time

Statements like that only diminish whatever is left of your credibility

Ram of Ayodhya came over 6-7K years ago - his name and following endures to this day
Jehovah / YAHWEH has been around since over 4K years in the consciousness of people who worship him
Krishna was around in the time period 5K years ago - still going strong and growing as connectivity makes the knowledge of the Gita more available

Just what makes you believe these will roll over to ........Baha'u'llah?

 

[ManSinha]

Just a few ...................................................

The Koran's 164 Jihad Verses
Excerpt K 2:178-179
Set 1, Count 1+2 [2.178]...retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain... [2.179] ...there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.
Excerpt K 2:190-191
Set 2, Count 3+4 [2.190] ...fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
Excerpt K 2:193-194
Set 3, Count 5+6 [193]...fight with them...[194]...whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you...
Excerpt K 2:216-218
Set 4, Count 7-9 [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you...[2.217]... fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter...persecution is graver than slaughter... [2.218]...strove hard in the way of Allah...
Excerpt K 2:244
Set 5, Count 10 ...fight in the way of Allah
Excerpt K 3:121-126
Set 6, Count 11-16 [3.121]...to lodge the believers in encampments for war...[3.122] When two parties from among you had determined that they should show cowardice [about Jihad]...[3.123]...Allah did certainly assist you at [the Battle of] Badr...[3.124]...[3.125] Yea! if you remain patient and are on your guard, and they come upon you in a headlong manner, your Lord will assist you with five thousand of the havoc-making angels. [3.126] ...victory is only from Allah...
Excerpt K 3:140-143
Set 7, Count 17-20 [3.140] If a wound has afflicted you (at [the Battle of] Uhud), a wound like it has also afflicted the (unbelieving) people; and We bring these days to men by turns, and that Allah may know those who believe and take witnesses from among you...[3.141] ...that He [Allah] may purge those who believe and deprive the unbelievers of blessings. [3.142] Yusuf Ali: Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without God testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? [3.143] Pickthall: And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it [death] with your eyes!
Excerpt K 3:146
Set 8, Count 21 Yusuf Ali: How many of the prophets fought (in Allah's way) [Jihad], and with them (fought) large bands of godly men? But they never lost heart if they met with disaster in Allah's way [lost a battle], nor did they weaken (in will) nor give in. And Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 3:152-158
Set 9, Count 22-28 [3.152]...you slew them by His [Allah's] permission [during a Jihad battle]...[3.153] Pickthall: ...the messenger, in your rear, was calling you (to fight)...that which ye missed [war spoils]...[3.154]...They say: Had we any hand in the affair, we would not have been slain here [in a Jihad battle]. Say: Had you remained in your houses, those for whom slaughter was ordained [in a Jihad battle] would certainly have gone forth to the places where they would be slain...[3.155] (As for) those of you who turned back on the day when the two armies met...[3.156] O you who believe! be not like those who disbelieve and say of their brethren when they travel in the earth or engage in fighting: Had they been with us, they would not have died and they would not have been slain...[3.157]...if you are slain in the way of Allah...mercy is better than what they amass [what those who stay home from Jihad receive – no booty on earth and no perks in heaven]. [3.158] …if indeed you die or you are slain, certainly to Allahshall you be gathered together.
Excerpt K 3:165-167
Set 10, Count 29-31 [3.165]...you [Muslims] had certainly afflicted (the unbelievers) with twice as much [in a Jihad battle]...[3.166]...when the two armies met ([the Battle of] Uhud)...[3.167]...Come, fight in Allah's way, or defend yourselves...If we knew fighting, we would certainly have followed you...
Excerpt K 3:169
Set 11, Count 32 ...reckon not those who are killed in Allah's way as dead; nay, they are alive (and) are provided sustenance from their Lord [meaning they are enjoying their 72 virgins in heaven];
Excerpt K 3:172-173
Set 12, Count 33+34 [3.172] ...those who responded (at [the Battle of] Uhud) to the call of Allah and the Apostle after a wound had befallen them...shall have a great reward. [3.173] Those to whom the people said: Surely men have gathered against you [in battle], therefore fear them, but this increased their faith, and they said: Allah is sufficient for us and most excellent is the Protector.
Excerpt K 3:195
Set 13, Count 35 ...who fought and were slain...I will most certainly make them enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; a reward from Allah, and with Allah is yet better reward.
Excerpt K 4:071-072
Set 14, Count 36+37 [4.71] ...go forth in detachments or go forth in a body [to war]. [4.72] ...hang back [from Jihad] ...not present with them [in Jihad].
Excerpt K 4:074-077
Set 15, Count 38-41 [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?...
Excerpt K 4:084
Set 16, Count 42 Fight then in Allah's way...rouse the believers to ardor maybe Allah will restrain the fighting of those who disbelieve...
Excerpt K 4:089-091
Set 17, Count 43-45 [4.89] ...take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back [to their homes], then seize them and kill them wherever you find them... [4.90] Allah has not given you a way against them [Allah supposedly does not allow Muslims to fight people friendly to Muslims]. [4.91]...seize them and kill them wherever you find them...
Excerpt K 4:094-095
Set 18, Count 46+47 [4.94]...when you go to war in Allah's way... [4.95] ...those who strive hard [Jihad] in Allah's way with their property and their persons are not equal...Allah shall grant to the strivers [i.e., Jihadist] above the holders back a mighty reward.
Excerpt K 4:100-104
Set 19, Count 48-52 ...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...
Excerpt K 4:141
Set 20, Count 53 Sher Ali:...If you have a victory [in Jihad] from Allah...
Excerpt K 5:033
Set 21, Count 54 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned [Pickthall and Yusuf Ali have "exiled" rather than "imprisoned"]
Excerpt K 5:035
Set 22, Count 55 ...strive hard [at Jihad] in His way that you may be successful.
Excerpt K 5:082
Set 23, Count 56 ...you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews [compare with "whenever Jews kindle fire for war, Allah [Muslims] puts it out" (K 005:064)] and those who are polytheists [while they are converted to Islam on pain of death]...
Excerpt K 8:001
Set 24, Count 57 Pickthall: ...the spoils of war...The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger
Excerpt K 8:005
Set 25, Count 58 Even as your Lord caused you to go forth from your house with the truth, though a party of the believers were surely averse;
Excerpt K 8:007
Set 26, Count 59 ...Allah promised you one of the two (enemy) parties, that it should be yours: Ye wished that the one unarmed should be yours, but Allah willed to justify the Truth according to His words and to cut off the roots of the Unbelievers.
Excerpt K 8:009-010
Set 27, Count 60+61 [8.9]...I will assist you [in Jihad] with a thousand of the angels following one another [see K 008:012]. [8.10] ...Allah only gave it as a good news and that your hearts might be at ease thereby; and victory is only from Allah; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
Excerpt K 8:012
Set 28, Count 62 ...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
Excerpt K 8:015-017
Set 29, Count 63-65 [8.15] ...when you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. [8.16] ...for the sake of fighting... [8.17] So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them, and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy), but it was Allah Who smote [Allah gets the credit for Jihad]... ......... continue >

Okay - this is the my last rejoinder to you - will leave any future ripostes to @Niblo @Firemorphic etc - but the first two that I italicized and underlined - pertain to self defense - again you are copying and pasting without reading through it

 

[ACEofALLaces]

That is not true Take the verse from Joshua 6:17-21

The Canaanites were not destroyed and their descendants continue to exist to this day - so either Joshua failed at what he was asked to do - or the whole thing is a bit of an allegorical story that never really happened.

I can surely appreciate that you have provided an 'exception' to the multiple examples of God literally obliterating entire villages, populations, yay even the entire PLANET in one such "fit".

I cannot overlook the instances where God ordered pregnant, otherwise INNOCENT women, to have their bellies ran through with a sword, causing the unborn child to be 'dashed upon the rocks'.

Or where God caused an innocent child to get sick and DIE, all because God had "issues" with the childs father. Stuff like that is very hard to forget and pretend didn't happen.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hey guys - just one request - please do not quote the Baha'i writings at me when you are trying to make a point - as I have said - the ramblings of an insecure man who is self glorifying and tried to make himself an incarnation of not one but three established religions - none of which will have anything to do with him - has not an iota of respectability in my eyes

I have seen you guys try to duck and weave in order to try and justify issues that were plain as day to everyone else. Between allegory and symbolism I really do not know what you believe and what you don't.

Quran

"Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided."

The Holy Quran - Chapter: 7: Al-A`raf

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

I can surely appreciate that you have provided an 'exception' to the multiple examples of God literally obliterating entire villages, populations, yay even the entire PLANET in one such "fit".

I cannot overlook the instances where God ordered pregnant, otherwise INNOCENT women, to have their bellies ran through with a sword, causing the unborn child to be 'dashed upon the rocks'.

Or where God caused an innocent child to get sick and DIE, all because God had "issues" with the childs father. Stuff like that is very hard to forget and pretend didn't happen.

I wasn't attempting to exonerate god - I was merely attempting to tell the other individual that not all of the bible is accurate -

I did list at least one other instance where the destruction was ordered and oh! forgot about the innocent babes-in-arms that were destroyed in "Noah's flood" -
If anything - I am guessing you and I think somewhat similarly

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I saw this video posted on a Christian forum I just joined. I do not know the Qur’an so I cannot refute it.

Then I saw another video attacking the Qur’an. How valid is this?

It may appear to have errors.
Specially when some of its verses are symbolic, and are meant to be interpreted symbolically, but, literalists take them literally. Verse 3:7 says, some of its verses are symbolic.
When such symbolic verses are interpreted literally, they appear to have errors in them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Now you are dreaming or delusional - that will never happen - that much I can tell you - you forget there are well over a billion dharmics who decidedly have a wider range of beliefs and a different perspective - and I do not see christianity and islam giving way either - much more likely - baha'ism may be confined to a few in several decades time

Statements like that only diminish whatever is left of your credibility

Ram of Ayodhya came over 6-7K years ago - his name and following endures to this day
Jehovah / YAHWEH has been around since over 4K years in the consciousness of people who worship him
Krishna was around in the time period 5K years ago - still going strong and growing as connectivity makes the knowledge of the Gita more available

Just what makes you believe these will roll over to ........Baha'u'llah?

Nobody will roll over. In the distant future, when everyone has recognized who Baha'u'llah was, they will voluntarily choose to be part of one religion.

The Baha'i Faith will never be confined, it will continue to grow just like every other religion that was once small.

There is not one single thing the followers of the older religions can do to stop the Baha'i Faith because it is the CAUSE OF GOD and nobody can stand in the way of what an Omnipotent God has willed for humanity. That is not even logical.

 

[Workman]

I do not know much about Qu’ran..
Infact! This is the first time I looked into this subject..
And I will say this..IMO!
Qu’ran says its perfect work into one word of finding oneself.
That is my understanding of this word..”Qu’ran”.

 

[ManSinha]

There is not one single thing the followers of the older religions can do to stop the Baha'i Faith

Nobody needs to do anything to stop it - it will fail on its own

because it is the CAUSE OF GOD and nobody can stand in the way of what an Omnipotent God has willed for humanity

So say all the other faiths - again and again you demonstrate your bias - and poor understanding of other faiths - and your blind acceptance of what you purport your prophet has said - that message is nothing new - as shown



Jeremiah 32:27

Quran 20:14

The SGGS

The Srimad Bhagvad Gita

TEXT 8
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah
SYNONYMS
aham—I; sarvasya—of all; prabhavah—source of generation; mattah—from Me; sarvam—everything; pravartate—emanates; iti—thus; matva—knowing; bhajante—becomes devoted; mam—unto Me; budhah—learned; bhava-samanvitah—with great attention.
TRANSLATION
I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.