Does The Koran Teach "Kill The Infidels"

[No Good Boyo]

To me the hadiths are too spurious and late in their recording to be taken seriously as authoritative. The hadiths also contain silly ideas in many places, that if Muhammad really did say this stuff, he should be dismissed as troubled, to put it nicely.

The hadiths say all kinds of strange nonsense. They say that if a person sleeps through morning prayer the devil urinates in his ear, and that angels stop asking Allah for someone's forgiveness if they break wind.

Buhkari Vol. 1 8:466 Narrated Abu Huraira: When he enters the mosque he is considered in prayer as long as he is waiting for the prayer and the angels keep on asking for Allah's forgiveness for him and they keep on saying: 'O Allah! Be Merciful to him, O Allah! Forgive him, as long as he keeps on sitting at his praying place and does not pass wind.

Buhkari Vol. 2 21:245 Narrated Abdullah: A person was mentioned before the Prophet (PBUH) and he was told that he had kept on sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer. The Prophet said, "Satan urinated in his ears."

I actually laughed out loud and got confused looks from my wife and the cats. Thanks )

I agree that they cannot be taken too seriously (although I don't have the indepth knowledge that you seem to have), but some people do take them seriously. And I think it is quite relevant to the theme of this thread.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Guess what? None of this is in the Qur'an... it's un-Qur'anic to think that there will be pleasure virgins in Paradise. Wishful thinking, maybe.

But people are sheep anyways. It's as crazy as Christians who believe in the Rapture... even though it is a completely novel doctrine and new interpretation of the Bible.

I think the virgins thing came about as part of the conditioning of the Hashishin.

 

[Gaura Priya]

I think the virgins thing came about as part of the conditioning of the Hashishin.

Somehow, the houris, the Pure Companions in Paradise mentioned in the Qur'an eventually translated to some as young pleasure-boys, or virgin ladies...

Stoopid Wahhabis...

In any case, the problem with hadiths is that there have been countless arguments regarding the historicity of the hadiths, and many of them are quite absurd. So many different 'scholars' have their opinions on the hadith, but they never had any importance until post Islamic renaissance... and look what happened to Islam after that! Even the Sunnis, Shiahs and Ahmadis all disagree on the different hadiths and sources out there.

I have had a Qur'an alone stance in regarding to Islam as the original way of life for Muslims. Some hadiths can be inspirational, no doubt; but in terms of historicity and actually said by the Prophet Himself, I highly doubt it.

However, this thread is about the Qur'an, and not about the hadiths. So while the hadiths are silly and can be removed from Islam, the Qur'an remains integral to the religion, as well as to the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I do not credit the hadiths myself. If I did I'd have to lose a good deal of respect for Muhammad. I don't credit the hadiths because most of them were not collected until 300 years after Muhammad, and narrations of the same event differ, sometimes majorly.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Seems to me it blatantly says literal Hell for the unbelievers,doesn't matter though because you can't be sent to somewhere that doesn't exist

Well see I take the Koran like I do the Bible, and think it's a mistake to read any holy text that literally.

 

[YmirGF]

See examined closely the Koran doesn't even really teach a literal hell.

Are you seriously suggesting that Muslims do not believe in a literal HellFire? Seriously?

Read many of the passages about hell and notice the metaphorical terms used for it. It calls hell an "evil bed to lie on", an "evil abode", etc. It says that the sins of the evil doer overtakes them openly while all look on= karma.

That is certainly a nuanced way of putting it, though it is somewhat accurate to say that entry into the HellFire is achieved by merit (your actions) rather than punishment from Allah (Allah's actions). To top this off, saying that ones actions will come back to them is not quite on the same order as saying ones actions will place them in the Hellfire for eternity. It was a valiant effort in apologetics however.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Ymir do you honestly think I care about the Muslim view of the Koran anymore then I do the Christian view of the Bible? I don't read books like others tell me to. I read them and use my own reasoning.

 

[McBell]

Did I say it was in the Qu'ran? Sorry, my error.

I believe this actually comes from the Hadith. Not the be all and end all of the religion, but it is the second most authorative document of Islam.

By my own admittion, I am not an authority on Islam so I welcome any correction to my input.

Here is one of the problems.
It is not THE hadith.
It is ONE of HUNDREDS of HadithS

 

[England my lionheart]

Well see I take the Koran like I do the Bible, and think it's a mistake to read any holy text that literally.

Unfortunately a mistake made by many

 

[ellenjanuary]

It's a question of morality. It is generally agreed that "thou shalt not kill" is a universal moral imperative; but at the level of the individual, it is moral absolutism gives one the sense of righteousness in dealing death. It is thus the goal of sacred texts not to promote death, but to promote the sense of righteousness in seeing another's death as justified.

 

[England my lionheart]

Here is one of the problems.
It is not THE hadith.
It is ONE of HUNDREDS of HadithS

Yes,you could permutate between hadith and sunna to justify a lot of negative things

 

[BruceDLimber]

bottom line all 3 abrahamic religions tell you it's ok to kill

because you are gods chosen...

So sorry, but there are FIVE Abrahamic religions, and the Baha'i Faith in particular--the newest of these--clearly does NOT teach or advocate killing, little as you seem to recognize or appreciate this!

And let the record show the Founders of the Babi and Baha'i Faiths are descended, from ALL THREE of Abraham's wives!

Just the facts.

Bruce

 

[Cordoba]

Are there verses that instruct Muslims to kill the infidels?

Who Are The Infidels?

What Are You Promised if you kill the infidels ?

Do you go to paradise if you don't carry out this command ?

Question answered yesterday in this live session at onislam.net:

There is nothing in the Quran that instructs Muslim kill the infidels. Islam is about peace, tolerance and co-existence.

Islam labels those who do not believe in God's message as non-Muslims. I do not like the word infidel. Some contemporary Muslim scholars prefer to use the term people of other faith communities to refer to those who do not follow the teachings of Islam.

The verses that refer to fighting those who oppressed Muslims have a context of war against Islam and Muslims. Therefore, Muslims had to defend themselves against the tyrant and the oppressors.

Even at times of war, Muslims are ordered not to kill women, children, the elderly, the worshipers, and not to attack houses of worship, rather they should defend them.

Live Dialogue - On Islam - OnIslam.net

 

[ImmortalPhoenix]

The Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians - all
those who believes in God and the Last Day and do good deeds - will
have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve. Quran 2:62

 

[Mellonhead]

The Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians - all
those who believes in God and the Last Day and do good deeds - will
have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve. Quran 2:62

That's a pretty comforting thing to tell someone if you want them to see things in a certain way.

 

[ImmortalPhoenix]

Yes I agree. Like seeing the Truth, and nothing but the Truth, so help me God.

 

[Mellonhead]

Yes I agree. Like seeing the Truth, and nothing but the Truth, so help me God.

To clarify, that was not a positive thing.

I was implying that it is coercing.

 

[ImmortalPhoenix]

*facepalm*
Jesus did not commit himself to them, because he knew all men and had no need that anyone should testify for man, because he knew what was in man. John 2:24-25

Darkness can never comprehend the light, but by the will of God.

The Muslims, the Jews, the Christians and the Sabians - all
those who believes in God and the Last Day and do good deeds - will
have their rewards with their Lord. No fear for them, nor will they grieve. Quran 2:62

The Quran is not a book of hate! It is a book of peace between the religions of Abraham, of the One God.

You have been lied to by the rulers of darkness of this world (one of the demonic influences besides Principalities, Powers and Wicked Spirits) " Ephesians 6:12".
The only way to win is a shield of faith, and a sword of the Spirit.


Peace.

 

[Mellonhead]

*facepalm*
Jesus did not commit himself to them, because he knew all men and had no need that anyone should testify for man, because he knew what was in man. John 2:24-25

Darkness can never comprehend the light, but by the will of God.



The Quran is not a book of hate! It is a book of peace between the religions of Abraham, of the One God.

You have been lied to by the rulers of darkness of this world (one of the demonic influences besides Principalities, Powers and Wicked Spirits) " Ephesians 6:12".
The only way to win is a shield of faith, and a sword of the Spirit.


Peace.

Sounds like a vidya game to me.

Where can I buy the potions of divine invocation?

The entire point of an argument is to support your view with proof and rational thinking. *shakes head*

 

[shammy]

I do believe that I will wait for at least one MUSLIM to answer...

Mestemia.. hope u got the explanation frm a muslim. inorder to get clarified.. we need to read the context of tht...we also should hv some knowledge abt the arab history... esp at the time of prophet mohammed. otherwise whn we take only a verse... tht wl lead to misinterpretation. quran is revelated in arabic language. the translations r not 'an equal' to quran. the translator may sometimes interpret things as he understood.