Does the Judeo-Christian Bible say Jesus is God?

[wizanda]

Frankly, other than Christianity, I cannot think of any religion that accepts the notion of Jesus being G-d. Is there some reason you think there might be?

Dharmic, Zoroastrian, Taoist, etc accept avatars, it is only Rabbinic Judaism after the Babylonian exile that then made others confused.

Plus in these cultures there is a distinct recognition of the God Most High (El Elyon) being the Source of Reality, beyond form or name, and then its Divine Representatives (Elohim).

In my opinion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

*Well it's not really evidence.* Prove it.

Jesus fits the mold as a demigod that is no different than the Greek or Roman demigods of the day with some tweaks made by which people can relate better to people in terms of human vulnerabilities. The proof in that respect clearly is in the pudding by simply reading the biblical narrative and speaks for itself for which Jesus was not a full-fledged God but one who was regarded as part human part god. It's pretty straightforward enough .

 

[metis]

It is quite clear that in the 1st and 2nd century Church that the prevailing belief was that Jesus was of God but clearly not God "the Father". However, there were theological struggles as to what that exactly entails that continued on into later centuries.

The "Mystery of the Trinity", as it is commonly referred to in Catholicism, tried to tie these lose strings together, but since it is considered a "Mystery" this basically says that there's wiggle room for discussion and debate, the latter of which is used to catch defish with.

 

[David T]

He is God in Human flesh: Bible Gateway passage: John 1:14 - King James Version did you review all of the evidence I have provided? I can get some more if you like, just tell me what you want me to prove.

You believe you understamd the term god as well. No evidence has been shown for that to be true. Can you give some proof other than a simple parroted response? Try burning the bible you are lost in a book. . Linguistic realism is nonsense.

 

[David T]

It is quite clear that in the 1st and 2nd century Church that the prevailing belief was that Jesus was of God but clearly not God "the Father". However, there were theological struggles as to what that exactly entails that continued on into later centuries.

The "Mystery of the Trinity", as it is commonly referred to in Catholicism, tried to tie these lose strings together, but since it is considered a "Mystery" this basically says that there's wiggle room for discussion and debate, the latter of which is used to catch defish with.

Yes and thus We arrive at constantine and it would have been unacceptable for the emperor to kneel before a dead executed jewish human heritic. Really this whole discussion is really about transference of understanding from the roman emperor to jesus. Where that title and understanding was almost god like itself was given over to jesus. So this whole discussion is about that event is all. Christianity didnt start fruitloopie

 

[metis]

Yes and thus We arrive at constantine and it would have been unacceptable for the emperor to kneel before a dead executed jewish human heritic. Really this whole discussion is really about transference of understanding from the roman emperor to jesus. Where that title and understanding was almost god like itself was given over to jesus. So this whole discussion is about that event is all. Christianity didnt start fruitloopie

Well, that's one way of looking at it.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

You believe you understamd the term god as well. No evidence has been shown for that to be true. Can you give some proof other than a simple parroted response? Try burning the bible you are lost in a book. . Linguistic realism is nonsense.

I have shown evidence, hun.

 

[David T]

I have shown evidence, hun.

I have shown evidence, hun.

Quoting the bible isnt evidence its nonsense dressed up and parroted. I mean parroting history is normal actually so you are normal! !!

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Quoting the bible isnt evidence its nonsense dressed up and parroted. I mean parroting history is normal actually so you are normal! !!

This debate was supposed to be about whether the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, and I can make a seperate debate about the Bible being true if you want.

 

[Prestor John]

My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position.Here goes:
A video that is your option to watch:

The preceeding video discusses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek the Bible was written in. Jesus means Jehovah Is Salvation, and His Hebrew name is Yeshua, the Hebrew word for Salvation, referenced here from Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) How can Jesus be Salvation, if He is not Yahweh God? My position is that He has to be God to be able to pay for salvation to those that receive Him. More evidence:
An article from Bible Questions Answered: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
From the article: Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
A Messianic Rabbi on Jesus being God:

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?

Yes, Jesus was Jehovah, but He is not God the Father.

 

[RabbiO]

This debate was supposed to be about whether the Bible teaches that Jesus is God, and I can make a seperate debate about the Bible being true if you want.

Herein lies the problem. As I pointed out to you before, you actually raised two issues, the question you posed in the title of this thread which you reference in your response above and the issue you raised in the post itself - "My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position."

I pointed out to you that there is no mention of Jesus in Hebrew scripture, no mention of Jesus being G-d. I also noted that you are free to believe to the contrary. If believing as you do makes you a better person, a more loving, caring and just person, then I say "Great." I also said that whether Christian scripture says that Jesus is G-d is a separate consideration. All I did after that was point out that even if Christian scripture does say that Jesus is G-d that does not, in and of itself, prove that contention. In any event, all the subsequent conversation with other members regarding whether Jesus is G-d or not is the result of your making it an issue in the original post.

By the way, I am going to overlook your snide and disrepectful response to me regarding the Complete Jewish Bible and the so called Messianic Rabbi. I am simply going to chalk it up to your lack of knowledge.

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

Herein lies the problem. As I pointed out to you before, you actually raised two issues, the question you posed in the title of this thread which you reference in your response above and the issue you raised in the post itself - "My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position."

I pointed out to you that there is no mention of Jesus in Hebrew scripture, no mention of Jesus being G-d. I also noted that you are free to believe to the contrary. If believing as you do makes you a better person, a more loving, caring and just person, then I say "Great." I also said that whether Christian scripture says that Jesus is G-d is a separate consideration. All I did after that was point out that even if Christian scripture does say that Jesus is G-d that does not, in and of itself, prove that contention. In any event, all the subsequent conversation with other members regarding whether Jesus is G-d or not is the result of your making it an issue in the original post.

By the way, I am going to overlook your snide and disrepectful response to me regarding the Complete Jewish Bible and the so called Messianic Rabbi. I am simply going to chalk it up to your lack of knowledge.

I agree to disagree civilly.

 

[12jtartar]

My main goal of this post is to provide a place for a civilized interfaith discussion on whether Jesus is God. Since I am making the positive claim that Jesus is God, I will have to provide evidence for my position.Here goes:
A video that is your option to watch:

The preceeding video discusses the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek the Bible was written in. Jesus means Jehovah Is Salvation, and His Hebrew name is Yeshua, the Hebrew word for Salvation, referenced here from Bible Search and Study Tools - Blue Letter Bible: Genesis 1:1 (KJV) How can Jesus be Salvation, if He is not Yahweh God? My position is that He has to be God to be able to pay for salvation to those that receive Him. More evidence:
An article from Bible Questions Answered: Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?
From the article: Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" Answer: The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!
Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as “O God,” indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. There are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.
The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
A Messianic Rabbi on Jesus being God:

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
How can Jesus be God, when Numbers 23:19 says that God is not a man or a son of man?
Is Jesus God in the flesh? Why is it important that Jesus is God in the flesh?

YeshuaBought,
This is a very important Article of Faith, that MUST be understood, to be acceptable to God.
Please listen because there is no doubt in what the Bible says.
First, there are two God’s, but ONE is Almighty, El Shaddai, the other is a Mighty god, El Gabbohr, in Hebrew.
In Hebrew The Only True God’s Name was YHWH, Jehovah, in English. These four letters, called The Tetragrammaton represented God’s Name. He is also called The Almighty, which is Mutually Exclusive, meaning, there can only be ONE Almighty God, Isaiah 9:6. God’s names can also be interpreted as. I Am Who I Am, and He Causes to Become, Exodus 3:13-15, 6:2,3. This last name distinguishes Jehovah God from any other Being, because only The Almighty God can cause all things to become exactly as He has Purposed, Isaiah 14:24-26, 55:11.
Now, let’s s go and see what is said in the Greek Scriptures, about God and Jesus. Jesus is the SON of the Almighty God, so Jesus is a god also, but not the One True God, Jesus mentioned at John 17:3. Jesus said that, he lives because of the Father, John 6:57. The Bible tells us that Jesus was the First Creation of God, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14.
One time a man came up to Jesus and said, Good Teacher, Jesus stoped Him, and asked, why do you call me Good, only one is Good, except One, God, Luke 18:18,19. Jesus, himself said that the Father is our Father, and his Father, our God and his God, John 20:17.
Consider what is written at 1Corinthians 8:5-6, there are many called God’s, but to Christians, there is only one GOD, and only one Lord, Jesus. Ephesians 4:5, One Lord, ONE GOD.
Jesus also tells us that some things he does not know, only the Father knows, Matthew 24:36, 20:23.
Just as another proof, there are Scriptures that tell us that God is sitting on His Throne and Jesus is brought in before Him. Not possible if they were the same person, Daniel 7:13,14, Revelation 5:1-7.
The Bible tells us that Jesus became Perfect through suffering. God is and always has been Perfect, in every way, Hebrews 5:7- 9. Jesus died to pay for our sins, John 3;16. God is immortal, and Cannot die, 1Timothy 1:17.
There are many other proof texts, but this should be enough to prove that God and Jesus cannot be the same person.
Agape!!!

 

[YeshuaRedeemed]

YeshuaBought,
This is a very important Article of Faith, that MUST be understood, to be acceptable to God.
Please listen because there is no doubt in what the Bible says.
First, there are two God’s, but ONE is Almighty, El Shaddai, the other is a Mighty god, El Gabbohr, in Hebrew.
In Hebrew The Only True God’s Name was YHWH, Jehovah, in English. These four letters, called The Tetragrammaton represented God’s Name. He is also called The Almighty, which is Mutually Exclusive, meaning, there can only be ONE Almighty God, Isaiah 9:6. God’s names can also be interpreted as. I Am Who I Am, and He Causes to Become, Exodus 3:13-15, 6:2,3. This last name distinguishes Jehovah God from any other Being, because only The Almighty God can cause all things to become exactly as He has Purposed, Isaiah 14:24-26, 55:11.
Now, let’s s go and see what is said in the Greek Scriptures, about God and Jesus. Jesus is the SON of the Almighty God, so Jesus is a god also, but not the One True God, Jesus mentioned at John 17:3. Jesus said that, he lives because of the Father, John 6:57. The Bible tells us that Jesus was the First Creation of God, Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14.
One time a man came up to Jesus and said, Good Teacher, Jesus stoped Him, and asked, why do you call me Good, only one is Good, except One, God, Luke 18:18,19. Jesus, himself said that the Father is our Father, and his Father, our God and his God, John 20:17.
Consider what is written at 1Corinthians 8:5-6, there are many called God’s, but to Christians, there is only one GOD, and only one Lord, Jesus. Ephesians 4:5, One Lord, ONE GOD.
Jesus also tells us that some things he does not know, only the Father knows, Matthew 24:36, 20:23.
Just as another proof, there are Scriptures that tell us that God is sitting on His Throne and Jesus is brought in before Him. Not possible if they were the same person, Daniel 7:13,14, Revelation 5:1-7.
The Bible tells us that Jesus became Perfect through suffering. God is and always has been Perfect, in every way, Hebrews 5:7- 9. Jesus died to pay for our sins, John 3;16. God is immortal, and Cannot die, 1Timothy 1:17.
There are many other proof texts, but this should be enough to prove that God and Jesus cannot be the same person.
Agape!!!

I am a trinitarian monotheist. Would you like me to specify?

 

[metis]

There are many other proof texts, but this should be enough to prove that God and Jesus cannot be the same person.

The Trinitarian concept is that Jesus is of God in a way that can be thought of as being His "essence", as used in Greek philosophy. Here: Essence - Wikipedia

In Catholicism it is often referred to as the "Mystery of the Trinity".

 

[Muffled]

I believe so in many places including the OT.

 

[Muffled]

The concept of the Trinity has been well discussed on many threads, but let me just say that this concept can be better understood if one understands the Aristotle concept of "essence". See Essence - Wikipedia

I believe then that means the essence of God is in Jesus (He says so) but the body is not essential to God.

 

[Muffled]

Don't the Baha'is call him a 'manifestation'?

I believe manifestation is inaccurate because it does not identify Jesus as God. John the Baptist was a manifestation of God but he was not God.

 

[metis]

I believe then that means the essence of God is in Jesus (He says so) but the body is not essential to God.

Which is 100% compatible with the Trinitarian approach, largely because of the Church's use of "essence" in its theology. IOW, the "essence" of Jesus is of the essence of God, much like the "essence" of bread and wine taken at the Eucharist is of the body and blood of Christ.

See: Essence - Wikipedia

 

[tayla]

Does the Judeo-Christian Bible say Jesus is God?

Only by way of interpretation. If you know the answer already, then it appears to be in the text.