Does the Christian God want you in heaven?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

 

[AlexanderG]

There are indeed a lot of passages that seem to support the Calvinist perspective, but just as many that say faith alone is enough, or good works, or a combination of faith and works.

To address your point, I've heard Matt Dillahunty say that if his mom goes to heaven and is blissfully joyful while he the atheist burns in hell, then whoever that woman in heaven is won't be his mom, because his mom would never be happy while seeing him suffer.

And if god transforms people into sinless beings before they enter heaven, then this begs the question of why play the suffering game on Earth instead of creating whoever he wants in heaven from the start? If it's to "build character," then why would he make us sinless later regardless. Or why couldn't he design us such that our characters became perfect by eating enough pizza, rather than by overcoming suffering? That would be more loving than choosing unnecessary suffering?

I've really never understood the concept of heaven. It seems incoherent and contradictory, especially when combined with the other traditional theology. And hell makes even less sense. Oddly, heaven and hell do make a lot of sense from the perspective of retaining believers in church and getting them to obey theocratic authorities...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

God wants me to be like Jesus ...

In what way?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

In what way?

sinless and perfect

 

[muhammad_isa]

sinless and perfect

We are all sinners.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't TRY to be righteous.

If you don't try, then you have no chance.
Almighty God forgives a trier.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

We are all sinners.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't TRY to be righteous.

If you don't try, then you have no chance.
Almighty God forgives a trier.

Not my point. No matter how hard I try I will never be sinless like Jesus. When I am in heaven I will be sinless, that is not me. My wife, kids, friends want to be with me even though I have flaws, god chooses not to do that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

When I am in heaven I will be sinless,

You have to get to heaven first.
..not everybody will go there.

My wife, kids, friends want to be with me even though I have flaws, god chooses not to do that.

Almighty God is not a person.
In the life hereafter, the righteous and the wicked will be separated.
Heaven would not be heaven, otherwise. There will be evil no more.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

You have to get to heaven first.
..not everybody will go there.

again, not my point.

Almighty God is not a person.
In the life hereafter, the righteous and the wicked will be separated.
Heaven would not be heaven, otherwise. There will be evil no more.

agreed. God does not want to be with us unless we are perfect and sinless unlike my family and friends. A perfect and sinless me is not me. God chooses not to be with us unless we are perfect and sinless. If you get to heaven then god changes you into a sinless perfect person. You will not be you in heaven.

 

[stvdv]

I like this topic, below are my thoughts (opinions) about this:
(Not to debate your views, just to share my thoughts on this)
(I like Buddha idea ... the Golden middle Path ... less extreme)
(Though I have this tendency to go a bit extreme)

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven..

Seems right (not bad) to me ...though I can't imagine God having desires. But it's a good incentive to work hard to become the best me I can be

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

Perfect, I don't know what that entails, but if it means be loving, truth abiding, and righteous living, I agree

 

[stvdv]

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven

I believe that when you have no "sin" you are already in Heaven

There are other ways to "get to Heaven" from my Hindu POV (Offer all thoughts, words and deeds to God, purifies all)

We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven

I think Jesus died because of our sin ... being ... killing Jesus

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things.

True, lot's of challenges to improve myself

 

[stvdv]

God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin

I like this picture of "footsteps"...when in distress there is 1 pair of footsteps, meaning "God was carrying me"

only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus

Only doing good seems fine to me. I don't feel I need to be like Jesus; follow truth, righteousness is already a huge step in the right direction

God wants Jesus clones

I believe God wants me to be my "true Self"

He loves Jesus not me.

I believe God Loves all

 

[AlexanderG]

Not my point. No matter how hard I try I will never be sinless like Jesus. When I am in heaven I will be sinless, that is not me. My wife, kids, friends want to be with me even though I have flaws, god chooses not to do that.

If Jesus went so far as to die for our sins, doesn't that mean we should dive right in and sin a lot, to make it worth his sacrifice? Otherwise, he died for nothing!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

If Jesus went so far as to die for our sins, doesn't that mean we should dive right in and sin a lot, to make it worth his sacrifice? Otherwise, he died for nothing!

This is not my point.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I like this topic, below are my thoughts (opinions) about this:
(Not to debate your views, just to share my thoughts on this)
(I like Buddha idea ... the Golden middle Path ... less extreme)
(Though I have this tendency to go a bit extreme)


Seems right (not bad) to me ...though I can't imagine God having desires. But it's a good incentive to work hard to become the best me I can be

Bible says God has a lot of desires.

Perfect, I don't know what that entails, but if it means be loving, truth abiding, and righteous living, I agree

In Christian doctrine it means sinless.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I like this picture of "footsteps"...when in distress there is 1 pair of footsteps, meaning "God was carrying me"

In that picture there is roof God exists.

Only doing good seems fine to me. I don't feel I need to be like Jesus; follow truth, righteousness is already a huge step in the right direction

That is just Christian doctrine. I agree we should strive to do good.

I believe God wants me to be my "true Self"

Maybe he does. But the Bible describes a God that does not want us to be ourselves.

I believe God Loves all

Maybe, but the Bible describes a God that does not love all.

 

[stvdv]

Maybe, but the Bible describes a God that does not love all

That indeed is the picture I got from the Old Testament especially
(I remember @Spiderman pointing that out to us quite a few times )

 

[Brian2]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

I don't see any Christian responses to your OP. I suppose they are shaking their head wondering how anyone could say such things, especially if you have been a Christian.
It must be just another thread to start arguments and waste out time.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I don't see any Christian responses to your OP. I suppose they are shaking their head wondering how anyone could say such things, especially if you have been a Christian.
It must be just another thread to start arguments and waste out time.

Do you have a response?

 

[InChrist]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

Thank God He does not want, nor will allow sin into heaven. I can hardly imagine the havoc and damage of letting sin and evil go on and on for eternity. God does desire the real you, me and everyone into heaven. Sin is bondage and has marred the real person. In Christ there is freedom to be who we were created to be.

 

[nPeace]

In my Christian life I believed that God wanted me to be with Him in heaven. But that is not what the Bible says.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.~ Romans 8:29-30

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:48

The idea is you must not have any sin to get to heaven. We must be perfect. This is the reason Jesus died, so we could be sinless in heaven.

The Bible says Christ died to redeem mankind from sin and death - not to take people to heaven. Romans 6:10; 1 Corinthians 15:3; 1 Peter 3:18

But the sinless me is not the real me. I have flaws and do good things and bad things. God does not want to be with me until I am perfect and without sin, only doing good like His son. God wants me to be like Jesus to be with me. God wants Jesus clones, He loves Jesus not me.

If someone told you that, they did not convey to you the truth accurately
We all have flaws, and none of us can remove our flaws.
Christ's sacrifice covers our sins, in that God forgives repentant ones, who draw close to him, by making the effort to not practice sin. James 4:8

If we love sinning, then we really are separating ourselves from God's love, and cannot benefit from Christ's sacrifice.

So, it's not that God does not love someone. Rather, it's the case that someone draws away from God, and his love. Jude 1:21