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Does the Bible not teach not to add or take away from it?

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
What do you think God meant when he said to John, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life..."?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
It means don't do it! :D
Well, could you elaborate just a bit?

What "book" was God talking about, for starters? And was God putting a gag order into effect, resticting Himself from all further revelation to mankind?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
It means do not add something or take away something you like or dislike, just because you agree or disagree. Don't make things up to fit your own agenda. Understand the meaning for what it is, not for what you wish it to be.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
jgallandt said:
It means do not add something or take away something you like or dislike, just because you agree or disagree. Don't make things up to fit your own agenda. Understand the meaning for what it is, not for what you wish it to be.
I completely agree with that statement and based on what you've written, the LDS don't add or take away from the Bible.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
nutshell, you have NEVER seen me say anything against the LDS religion. in fact, quite the contrary is true. If that is the 'way' God is leading you, whom am I to say differently. I can state what I get out of the Bible, which might be different then what you get. Who's right? we both are. :D There is no wrong path as long as it comes from God.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
nutshell, you have NEVER seen me say anything against the LDS religion. in fact, quite the contrary is true. If that is the 'way' God is leading you, whom am I to say differently. I can state what I get out of the Bible, which might be different then what you get. Who's right? we both are. :D There is no wrong path as long as it comes from God.
Jeff, you never have said anything against us, and it's much appreciated! :) I'd still be interested in your answers to the two questions I asked, though. I think it will help us come to a better understanding of how we understand these verses. Obviously, they're pretty important and I don't think that any Christian wants to get them wrong.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Katzpur said:
Obviously, they're pretty important and I don't think that any Christian wants to get them wrong.
But that's just it. What I get out of it might be different then what you get out of it. It does not make either of us WRONG, it just makes 2 different ways that God is trying to reach us.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Katzpur said:
Well, could you elaborate just a bit?

What "book" was God talking about, for starters? And was God putting a gag order into effect, resticting Himself from all further revelation to mankind?
I truly believe he was talking about the Bible. I feel that he was putting a gag order on adding to or taking away from the Bible. I believe he still reveals truths to mankind...but I truly don't feel that ANYONE has had or will have the authority to add to or take away from the bible to suit their own agenda OR add any book or documents which are placed on a pedestal higher or at level with the Bible.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
dawny0826 said:
I truly believe he was talking about the Bible. I feel that he was putting a gag order on adding to or taking away from the Bible. I believe he still reveals truths to mankind...but I truly don't feel that ANYONE has had or will have the authority to add to or take away from the bible to suit their own agenda OR add any book or documents which are placed on a pedestal higher or at level with the Bible.
The bible didn't exist when that was written. What if the church had decided to put Revelation as the first book in the New Testament? Would you still think he was talking about the entire Bible?

Also, could you explain how the people who put the Bible together in the first time recieved this authority from God and why no one else would ever receive it?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
nutshell said:
I completely agree with that statement and based on what you've written, the LDS don't add or take away from the Bible.
I'm beginning to understand that you really DON'T...and I was wrong in thinking so.

It's been enlightening for me to have the opportunity to "speak" with LDS on these forums. I've learned much and someone stated that though our beliefs differ and our approach to worship may not be the same...we're still on the same team. I really NEEDED to hear that. Because, that's true, I've been guilty of making speculations and assumptions without really having a clear understanding about the LDS. And although, I don't understand everything about the LDS...I've learned enough to realize that the there are people of the LDS on these forums who no doubt feel as strongly and passionately as I do about Christ and are clearly trying to spread the word that GOD really IS LOVE. I feel almost like a lightbulb has gone off in my brain...how awesome to have the opportunity to share with others of like faith...and truly...we really aren't so different...

I don't discount that there are men and women of GOD who are prophetic and are led to write incredible books and put out wonderful resources for others to grow by and to be nurtured in their fath. But I truly DO question those who place themselves on a pedestal where they feel they've been given authority to alter the Bible (I'm not referring to the LDS here) or add a book which is revered so highly...that it's placed next to the Bible and has been incorporated into a religion.

I read books on faith now...by people who I truly believe have been given diretion by God to write books which help others to grow spiritually and I can't say that there haven't been modern day prophets who truly have important messages to give but the credible books, in my opinion, are those that reference the Bible and send you right to the Bible...

The Bible is more than sufficient for me. Sometimes, it truly helps to have another's opinion about a verse or to hear their life stories and experiences but the Bible truly contains all I need to KNOW HOW to live my life....others can help perhaps to point me in the right direction about certain issues but no book that I've ever read holds a candle to the Bible, to be honest.

That's just how I feel...

To the LDS on these forums, I want you to know that it truly is a pleasure to post here with you...I truly hope to have the opportunity to share with you and learn from you more as we go...and I feel blessed to have this new perspective...:)
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
jonny said:
The bible didn't exist when that was written. What if the church had decided to put Revelation as the first book in the New Testament? Would you still think he was talking about the entire Bible?

Also, could you explain how the people who put the Bible together in the first time recieved this authority from God and why no one else would ever receive it?
Did the Bible NOT exist before the Book of Mormon?
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Katzpur said:
What do you think God meant when he said to John, "If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life..."?
This is Revelations, right? Could you cite chapter and verse, please. I found the chapter and reproduce it entire, so we do not have to worry about context.
Revelation 22



1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

8And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.



In context, I think the only "book" is "The Apocalypse". One must remember that the New Testament is not a "book" it is a library, composed of many books. And the language of the Apocalypse is highly metaphoric, so it is hard to add to or take away from that which is highly metaphoric.



Regards,

Scott 21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
dawny0826 said:
Did the Bible NOT exist before the Book of Mormon?
The Book of Mormon was translated in the 1820s, but it was written between 600 BC and about 421 AD (according to LDS beliefs). For those who believe in the Bible and the Book of Mormon, they come from the same time period. I believe it was inspiried - even if the people who put the Bible together didn't have access to it.

"The Bible" is a collection of writings from many different people. To claim that what John wrote in Revelation regarding not adding or removing things had anything to do with the rest of the Bible doesn't make sense to me based on the history of the Bible. If it does than the compilors of the bible are screwed. They added and removed books for hundreds of years.

This link will give you some information on the process of the cannonization of the Bible:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon#Christian_canon
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Whether or not John was meaning that particular book (which more then likely he was) does not mean that we should take the rest of the books of the Bible and translate it to fit our agenda. To find a version that closely resembles the original writters' meaning, and not a version that fits a particular persons' agenda that translated that version is paramount.
 

Snowbear

Nita Okhata
Katzpur said:
Does the Bible not teach not to add or take away from it?
Now that you have received several answers to your question, please tell us why you think jgallandt is wrong:
Katzpur said:
jgallandt said:
Does the Bible not teach not to add or take away from it?
Actually, the Bible doesn't teach this at all, at least not in the way you are interpreting it. But that's a topic for another thread. ;)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
StewpidLoser said:
Now that you have received several answers to your question, please tell us why you think jgallandt is wrong:
I don't think he's wrong in terms of what he actually said. But he didn't actually say what "book" was God talking about in the verses I quoted, nor did He address the issue of whether God was saying, in effect, that He had said everything to us that He intended to say. Those are the two really significant issues, in my opinion.

From my perspective, I believe that He was speaking specifically of the book of Revelation. In fact, in verse 19, He refers to "the words of the book of this prophecy." Since not all of the Bible is prophecy, and since the Bible wasn't even written at the time God gave John Revelation, I think He was warning men not to take it upon themselves to either expand upon that book or remove anything from it.

I further agree with Jeff that men don't have the right to try to make the scriptures fit what they personally believe. Rather, they need to make our beliefs fit what the scriptures say.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
dawny0826 said:
It's been enlightening for me to have the opportunity to "speak" with LDS on these forums. I've learned much and someone stated that though our beliefs differ and our approach to worship may not be the same...we're still on the same team.
Yes! We truly are! :bounce Go team! Thank you for pointing that out. Frubals to you from me, Dawny.

Kathryn
 
I believe that the verse only refers to the book of Revelation. I also dont take the "plagues of this book" literally as what could be worse than condemnation in God's eyes?

However, I believe the principle behind the verse is applicable. Many times in the OT and the NT a verse may not implicitly command something to us today, but the principle behind the verse is still appliable to us.
 
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