1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Does the Bible mention Islam?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Nov 5, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    16.7%
  2. No

    64.6%
  3. Maybe

    6.3%
  4. I don't know

    8.3%
  5. This poll doesn't reflect my thinking

    4.2%
  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,758
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I see Muhammad was also persecuted as he also said He had a connection to God, that God gave the Message of the Quran to Him.

    The Bab had the same fate as Jesus the Christ and for the same reasons suffered execution by firing squad in amazing circumstances.

    Baha'u'llah suffered persecution and banishment for the same reason as Christ.

    Because of those three Messages from God, We now know how Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are connected to God.

    Jesus the flesh is not God, He is but a man like us. The Holy Spirit, the Christ part of Jesus, the Spirit Jesus was born with and reflected to all humanity , is all we can know about God.

    We will never see the flesh body of Jesus again, we have seen the Holy Spirit, the 'Christ' again through Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

    Peace be with you and all, regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    There are plenty of papers by biblical scholars that examine the use of key Greek words used in the New Testament and Septuagint and consider possible meanings. A great example is the use of the word Logos in John 1:1. Verses in John 1 are often cited by some Christians as being supportive of the Divinity of Christ. But is it? If we considered the way the word Logos is used by Philo, a Hellenized Jew and contemporary of Jesus, this sheds light on what Logos most likely means. It simply means mediator or intermediary between God and man.

    Philo's view of God - Wikipedia

    Lets look at the verse from John 10:34 in context;

    My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
    I and my Father are one.
    Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
    Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
    The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
    Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
    If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
    Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


    Jesus makes an ambiguous statement "I and my father are one". In response the Jews, without any reference to Pharisees, pick up stones because of blasphemy. In this instance the blasphemy is that Jesus has ‘made Himself God’. Jesus responds with reference to the Tanakh, Psalms 82:6 where it is said;

    I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    So in that context Jesus is downplaying the Divinity question but then elaborates saying;

    Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    So blasphemy is clearly associated with the claim of being 'Son of God'.
     
    #682 adrian009, Nov 21, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  3. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    The Laws revealed to Moses, were they meant for everyone or only for the Hebrews?

    When Jesus came, were the supposed to stop obeying the old Law and follow the laws Jesus brought? Then same with Muhammad, were the Jews and the Christians supposed to stop following their old Laws and follow the Laws Muhammad brought?
     
  4. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    So there is three people that are "The Comforter", Muhammad, The Bab, and Baha'u'llah. All three were known by the apostles and all three dwelt within them? Physically or spiritually?

    I would think spiritually 'cause a physical body can't dwell within another person's body. So what's the problem with the Comfoter being a "disembodied" spirit? And what is more real the spiritual realm or the temporal physical realm?
     
  5. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    I I would imagine that even Baha'is believe that the spiritual realm is a different dimension. But believing Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to the disciples then ascended into the heavens is something they can't and don't want to be true. So they make all symbolic.
     
  6. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    Who is the "Lamb" in Revelation?
     
  7. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    The gospels are told as if they are the real things that were said and done. From one verse to the next, suddenly, it's not literal?
     
  8. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,811
    Ratings:
    +3,225
    Religion:
    undecided
    So every time in Revelation there is a trumpet blast or a woe, it is the coming of a new manifestation?
     
  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    12,605
    Ratings:
    +5,758
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The core teaching of Baha'u'llah is the Messengers are born of the same Holy Spirit. In that way they are all the Comforter.

    We are born of the Human Spirit and must connect with the Spirit of Faith.

    I think I posted this before, the Tablet of the Universe by Abdul'baha. It shows to me that we could see the Holy Spirit in this material world like the suns and planets in the universe, each body reflecting God to its given capacity.

    In turn we are given life from these bodies.

    Tablet of the Universe

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,926
    Ratings:
    +579
    Religion:
    Christian

    Yes as I have notice that also.
    Thanks
     
  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,926
    Ratings:
    +579
    Religion:
    Christian
    Let's see, what Christ Jesus has to say.

    On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)
    Baha'u'llah died at Acre in Israel, and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre of Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.
    Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
    This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.
    Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.
    The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people in Jerusalem.

    But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.
    So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

    But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
    34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

    So we find the Prophets died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem.

    Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem. So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people in Jerusalem, But by a fever.

    Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

    For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

    That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem as a false prophet.
     
  12. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The seven trumpets are described in Revelation 8 and Revelation 9:1-19. There are further references in Revelation 11:15-19. The seven trumpets are closely associated with the seventh seal judgments. The first four are tribulations that affect the early Christian Church until the advent of the Islamic Dispensation in 622 AD.

    Following the fourth trumpet judgment, John describes an eagle flying through the air. This eagle cries out, “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels” (Revelation 8:13). So its only the fifth, sixth, and seventh trumpets that are referred to as the three woes. These three woes are associated with the Islamic, Babi, and Baha'i dispensations.

    The fifth trumpet or first woe is particularly dramatic as it concerns events that will unfold through the Islamic dispensation from 622 AD until the advent of the Bab 1844. There are of course references to events in Christendom during that period, not just Islam.

    So the trumpet blasts five, six and seven are associated with the three woes and a new Manifestation of God. The trumpet blasts one to four are associated with tribulations of the Christian church prior to Islam. These tribulations are not associated with the three woes or the advent of a new Manifestation of God.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The lamb symbolism is closely associated with 'the Christ' or Jesus. So references to the Lamb generally refer to a Manifestation of God either directly or indirectly.

    The lamb is mentioned 29 times in the book of revelation so we would need to consider each verse in context.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The main mode of communication back in the days of Jesus was by way of story telling and word of mouth (oral traditions). Each gospel would take no more than 2 -3 hours to recite. As a religious story it is a narrative that is to be understood on many levels. Many biblical scholars realise the futility of insisting its all to be taken literally.
     
  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    There is no biblical requirement for all prophets of God to live forever or to live and die in Jerusalem.
     
  16. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,926
    Ratings:
    +579
    Religion:
    Christian
    Not according to Christ Jesus in the book of Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

    Therefore as Christ Jesus has said " For it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"
    This being that no prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.
    All prophets of God died in Jerusalem.
    Even Christ Jesus himself died in Jerusalem.
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,926
    Ratings:
    +579
    Religion:
    Christian
    Maybe then you should take it up with Christ Jesus on Judgement day. Good luck you'll need it.
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Christ is lamenting how the Hebrew people have treated their prophets of old, and the absurd reasons used to justify their behaviour in putting to death God's messengers. Moses Himself wouldn't be considered a prophet if such criteria are used. You are strengthening my argument. Why not try reading the verses in context rather than taking one verse out of context and giving it a literal meaning that was never intended (Luke 13:31-35).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,926
    Ratings:
    +579
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jerusalem wasn't even around at the time of Moses, Jerusalem didn't came to be, until king David, which was about 1000 years after Moses.

    Jesus made it very clear on stating ( for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem) all prophets of Gods perish in Jerusalem.
    Any other Prophets that did not die in Jerusalem are false Prophets.

    If you have a problem with it, need to take it up with Christ Jesus on Judgement day.
     
  20. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,624
    Ratings:
    +10,126
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The problem lies with your English comprehension, not with my spiritual state.

    The verse may also be an allusion to Christ's impending martyrdom.

    Why not try reading some commentaries about how others interpret this verse rather than resorting to your typical "I'm right, your wrong" statements.

    Luke 13:33 Commentaries: "Nevertheless I must journey on today and tomorrow and the next day; for it cannot be that a prophet would perish outside of Jerusalem.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...