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Does The Bible Encourage Violence?

ProfLogic

Well-Known Member
Daria said:
i wasn't trying to imply that it was necessarily the inspiration of the holy spirit, but that is the view that's held nowadays. and like i said, it's all an interpretation by human minds, and not the actual, infallible truth.

also, i don't quite understand what you're saying in the second half of the post - who would have destroyed what...?



it's not about separating them, it's about looking at each within its context.


Can you elaborate which post... sorry the pope was calling me to tie his shoes? ..lol By the way what do you know about the origin of the bible?
 

Daria

Member
ProfLogic said:
Can you elaborate which post... sorry the pope was calling me to tie his shoes? ..lol By the way what do you know about the origin of the bible?

the pope was calling you to tie his shoes... right...:sarcastic

i was referring to this post:
ProfLogic said:
How would any man know it was a holy spirit, cause it said so? If I say I am George bush would you believe me right away? If it is inspired by a part of it, the holy spirit then it wanted to share its murderous point of views to its followers hence the stories in the OT, other wise we would have never seen the OT at all. It would have destroyed it long before and with all the people who knew about it.
your last two sentences make no real grammatical sense. perhaps you could rephrase what you mean, as most of my effort seems to be concentrated into figuring out the construct of your sentences.

about the origin of the bible:
i never said i was a theologian, and i agree that my "knowledge" of the origin of the bible is rather limited. however, the thread asked for an opinion of whether or not the bible encouraged violence; i don't see why it is of immense importance to know full details about the bible's origin. i know that it is a collection of books brought together, and i know that there was heavy debate about which books to include in the "final version", and which ones to eliminate. so i'm fully aware that there have been elements of interference in the compiling of the bible.
 

PureMuslim

New Member
I am responding to Hog Caller and melody---

My point is that yes the Jews were said to have ultimate knowledge of the past history. Im not Anti-Jew or anything as a matter of fact i live with jews but even though allah says they do have knowlege the also are critisized in the quran:
Kamathale alhomare yahmello asfara\
--- like the example of donkeys carrying scriptures
This means that the jews do have knowledge but they dont ever seem to use it. Even when the Jews came to test if Mohamed was a real prophet they used their knowledge to quiz them about the people of the cave. The question was,"how many people slept in the cave?" Allah responded in the quran not with a number but with the whole story. When he got to the issue of numbers he said:
018.022
YUSUFALI: (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth,- doubtfully guessing at the unknown; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say thou: "My Lord knoweth best their number; It is but few that know their (real case)." Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers.
PICKTHAL: (Some) will say: They were three, their dog the fourth, and (some) say: Five, their dog the sixth, guessing at random; and (some) say: Seven, and their dog the eighth. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord is Best Aware of their number. None knoweth them save a few. So contend not concerning them except with an outward contending, and ask not any of them to pronounce concerning them.
SHAKIR: (Some) say: (They are) three, the fourth of them being their dog; and (others) say: Five, the sixth of them being their dog, making conjectures at what is unknown; and (others yet) say: Seven, and the eighth of them is their dog. Say: My Lord best knows their number, none knows them but a few; therefore contend not in the matter of them but with an outward contention, and do not question concerning them any of them

Main point is that again Allah swt says that you worry to much about the details why does it matter? you have the knowledge extract the moral from it...

Now to the point of the Bible:
My main point was that the Bible was with no doubt once true but it has been such a long time that it has been accomidated to fit within the needs of the evil people who changed it throughout the years. God would never say to kill women and rape the virgins... If you can prove to me that he did say that then i won't believe in god at all!!!!!
 

Matt88

Member
Before complaining about the splinter in your neighbors eye, first remove the plank in your own ;)

-a verse from the New Testament
 

Simon Gnosis

Active Member
Melody said:
I disagree but to be honest and a bit weary of trying to explain at the moment. Perhaps I'll come back another day. :)

I just don't understand why people cannot simply accept that every culture every nation every race every person has and have their own subtly different approaches to what they all have in common...spritualism and faith plus a belief in a divine entity that created the universe.

Thus the religous tales and books will differ (although there are many startling contrasts between seemingly un connected religions)
Surely a rational God would not demand the total conversion of humanity to Christianity knowing full well at what cost this may be to those cultures whom are alien to and many thousands of miles away from the semites of the levant?

Like the Incas whom met their demise at the hands of the spanish conquisitors who annhilated them in short measure with war and disease and then converted the survivors to christianity....nice...the whole trip was based on the lie that they where there doing the lords work converting the heathens...lol
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
PureMuslim said:
Wow and peopele say Islam is a violent religion-- See my latest post for more details about that subject (Clarafying a Misunderstood Subject: What is Jihad?)...


"WILL MAKE MY ARROWS DRUNK WITH BLOOD, AND MY SWORD SHALL DEVOUR FLESH... DEFEAT THEM AND DISTROY THEM UTTERLY...MAKE NO TREATY WITH THEM AND SHOW NO FAVOUR TO THEM" (DUETERONOMY 7:1-2)

"wHEN... GOD GIVES (A CITY) INTO YOUR HANDS, KILL ALL THE MEN IN IT... DO NOT LEAVE ALIVE ANYTHING THAT BREATHS" (DEUTERONOMY 20:10-17)

ok and this one is really messed up:

"KILL EVERY MALE CHILD AND BABY AND KILL EVERY WOMAN WHO IS NOT A VIRGIN. BUT SAVE FOR YOURSELF THE VIRGIN GIRLS." (NUMBERS 31:17-18)

--ok ok so not only do i kill the children i rape the virgins? Im telling you this is not the word of god. FACE IT THE BIBLE HAS BEEN ALTERED BY BAD AND UNHOLY PEOPLE

I wanted to get back to the OP and address some of the original issues.

First, I disagree that your examples show that the Bible was "altered by bad and unholy people." All of your examples come from the OT. We have attempted to explain that the religious culture of the OT was small, was constantly threatened by outside oppression, was (mostly) racially pure and culturally separatist. Further, the religion was very closely tied to ethnicity.

Second, I might have fewer problems with your premise if you hadn't used the word, "encourage." Just because stories are included where God commands certain people to engage in killing, does not mean that "the Bible encourages killing."

From a strictly OT pov, these are stories of ethnic cleansing. (OT scholars and Jews, please correct me if I'm mistaken) For the Hebrew to be righteous, he had to be pure, that is, free from racial and cultural "contamination." These actions were sort of a "holy war" against contamination.

From a Christian pov, I really think the NT (which seemed to be patently ignored in the OP) is a huge mitigating factor for determining God's vengeful nature. The NT encourages, not killing, but love. (In fact, if looked at from a certain pov, the OT is also based upon hospitality and graciousness in the face of evil.)

All in all, I'd have to say that, no, the Bible does not encourage killing and the provided examples do not show that the Bible was "altered by bad and unholy people." I think the premise is shaky and the conclusions unfounded.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Matt88 said:
Before complaining about the splinter in your neighbors eye, first remove the plank in your own ;)

I thought it was somthing like:

After you get finished beating your neighbor with a board, be sure to get all the dust out of your eyes.
 

ProfLogic

Well-Known Member
Daria said:
the pope was calling you to tie his shoes... right...:sarcastic

i was referring to this post:

your last two sentences make no real grammatical sense. perhaps you could rephrase what you mean, as most of my effort seems to be concentrated into figuring out the construct of your sentences.

about the origin of the bible:
i never said i was a theologian, and i agree that my "knowledge" of the origin of the bible is rather limited. however, the thread asked for an opinion of whether or not the bible encouraged violence; i don't see why it is of immense importance to know full details about the bible's origin. i know that it is a collection of books brought together, and i know that there was heavy debate about which books to include in the "final version", and which ones to eliminate. so i'm fully aware that there have been elements of interference in the compiling of the bible.

You mentione the Holy Spirit that seems to suggest what needs to be in the scriptures that were written. These ancient scriptures written in biblical hebrew and armanic (I think) were compiled into the bible 300 years after . We definitely see violent acts.. majority in the old testament. Since it was in these ancient scriptures I was saying the holy spirit wanted them to exists.

About your knowledge, I never questioned it, my point is other people would think differently if they knew the source of the information they are reading. It had been said in numerous sites, that christians do not know about bible origins. I would say it might make a difference for some if they actually did. I have seen it from my experience other people finally seeing and perceiving the bible differently once they knew the origin.
 

ProfLogic

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
I thought it was somthing like:

After you get finished beating your neighbor with a board, be sure to get all the dust out of your eyes.

So violent..angellous, it that demon around?..... you know you could have saved the board the nature of brutality.. lol Perhaps it could have been used to create a better guitar neck......instead.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ProfLogic said:
So violent..angellous, it that demon around?..... you know you could have saved the board the nature of brutality.. lol Perhaps it could have been used to create a better guitar neck......instead.

But how could a guitar neck fit into your eye?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ProfLogic said:
Easily, they have miniaturized guitars similar to violins.....I got one from spain....

Why would I want to hit someone with a guitar anyway?

That's why we have 2 by 4 's.:cover:
 

ProfLogic

Well-Known Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Why would I want to hit someone with a guitar anyway?

That's why we have 2 by 4 's.:cover:

I did not you were about to use a board which I said could be used to make a better guitar neck. Save the board...darn it lol
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
ProfLogic said:
I did not you were about to use a board which I said could be used to make a better guitar neck. Save the board...darn it lol

It's better to hit someone with a board than a guitar.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
ProfLogic said:
I did not you were about to use a board which I said could be used to make a better guitar neck. Save the board...darn it lol

Most 2x4's are made of pine. Most guitar necks are made of much harder woods, like mahogany or maple. (The density of the wood creates a better tone and greater stability.) Therefore, a board would not make a better guitar neck.:guitar1:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sojourner said:
Most 2x4's are made of pine. Most guitar necks are made of much harder woods, like mahogany or maple. (The density of the wood creates a better tone and greater stability.) Therefore, a board would not make a better guitar neck.:guitar1:

I'll just use a Louisville slugger. No one wants a baseball bat guitar neck.:no:
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
sojourner said:
although some do prefer "fenceposts..."

If you're big enough to swing a fencepost, you're big enough for me to shoot.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
angellous_evangellous said:
If you're big enough to swing a fencepost, you're big enough for me to shoot.
I'm sorry...wasn't the thread about the Bible promoting violins? After all...God did set a bow in the sky...:rainbow1:

:Edit: Next, someone's going to say that the Bible promotes sax, too! Although trumpets and timbrels and harps are mentioned, nowhere are pianos or saxes promoted.
 
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