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Featured Does the Bible Contradict Itself ?

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Neuropteron, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    But the history of the area in no way matches that. There was a long period of the Babylonian exile where they were not under their own rule. If it is a "prophecy" it is a failed one.
     
  2. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Certainly the Judah aspect of the Monarchy didn't survive till Jesus, but there was still a monarchy. And the "kingdom" that would come from the last Judean king would be the Messianic one (but of course, people will say that Jesus wasn't supposed to be of the Davidic line, but it's the symbols that concern us.)
     
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Reinterpretation upon reinterpretation means that almost any vague or poetic line can be reinterpreted as "prophecy". To be a valid prophecy it first must clearly be a prophecy. This fails the first test.
     
  4. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    So what do YOU think Jacob was alluding to when he blessed Judah?
     
  5. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    You can say the Israeli monarchy began with a non-Judaeo king (King Saul) and ended with Herod's sons, clients of Rome.
    And you can say that Israel was split into two, with ten of the twelve not having a Judean king at all.
    But Jacob didn't split the prophesy like that.
    There would be a kingdom, there would be a kingdom from the tribe of Judah, there would be a Messiah and it would be the Gentiles and not the Jews who would believe upon him. I like that.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Does it really matter? Genesis and Exodus both are allegory at best. Jacob is almost certainly a fictitious character.
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Herod was not exactly a "king". Nor was he in a line of kings. The verse is so vague as to be worthless.
     
  8. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    No, but there was still a monarchy. He was King Herod the Great.
    And they modeled themselves upon the Judean kings of old.
    The rest of the text you ignore - is it too difficult?
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    It was pretty much nonsense. Once again, it is almost certain that Jacob was fictional. Why did you ignore that?
     
  10. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    So a "fictional" guy writes an account that accords fairly well with the world we see today through the eyes of Messianic Jews.
    It has happened - I think the two tiny moons of Mars, deimos phobos, were predicted in science fiction. And there's the prophecy of Cortez coming to the Aztecs.
    But there's (just ignoring hundreds of other prophecies in scripture) a number of separate prophecies here. I will count them:
    1- a state of Israel
    2- a monarchy
    3 - a law
    4 - Judean kings
    5 - Messiah
    6 - Gentiles obeying the Messiah
    7 - end of the state of Israel

    And... many of prophecies speak of the Jews returning to their homeland in the latter days when the Gentiles turn away. In the late 1800's the idea of Zionism was ridiculed by Jew and Gentile alike. It's the same as people calling themselves Babylonian returning to a hostile Iraq and rebuilding Babylon, its language and culture, against all the odds. Think about it - it's well written in the bible.
     
  11. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That is very interesting. Just a few thoughts that popped up [I did not share them to get into debate though]:

    1): This verse could be a lie: "It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)"
    2): Humans are made in God's image, so "our word" can be seen as "God's word"
    3): We don't have a definition of God so far, so who/what are we talking about claiming "It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)"
    4): Maybe God is just an imagination in human mind, so "It is impossible for God to lie. (Hebrew 6:18)"
    5): Maybe God exists, but our "picture" is wrong. In our mind "things seem inconsistent" where seen from God it is not.
     
  12. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    In all caps no less. Hmmmm. Must be a HUGE fact. In any case, let's take a look at the books of Matthew and John, but first keep in mind the definition of your word "discrepancy"

    discrepancy noun
    uk /dɪˈskrep.ən.si/ us /dɪˈskrep.ən.si/ formal
    difference between two things that should be the same

    Okaaay . . . . take a look at what each book has to say about the rolling stone incident.

    Matthew 28:1-2, 5
    1The day after the Sabbath day was the first day of the week. That day at dawn Mary Magdalene and the other woman named Mary went to look at the tomb. 2 Suddenly an angel of the Lord came from the sky, and there was a huge earthquake. The angel went to the tomb and rolled the stone away from the entrance. Then he sat on top of the stone.
    5 The angel said to the women, “Don’t be afraid. I know you are looking for Jesus, the one who was killed on the cross.

    John 20:1
    Early on Sunday morning, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb. She saw that the large stone was moved away from the entrance.

    20 Point Test Question: When the women came to the tomb was the stone already rolled away or not?


    Considering the discrepancy between Matthew and John, obviously they can't. :D

    Curious, just how does purposely putting contradictions in the Bible put off the all-wise, all-knowing, know-it-all cynics?

    .
     
    #32 Skwim, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  13. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    This is taken out of context. I said if there were 'no discrepancy' then the cynic would challenge the accounts because you can't get four 'historians' writing the same thing.
    Discrepancies on minor points shows the Gospels were not redacted or contrived at a later stage. And on that note - discrepancies between the hand written documents, going back to the First Century, are few and minor.
     
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  14. 12jtartar

    12jtartar Active Member
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    shunyadragon,
    It seems that people who do not want to acknowledge that God has the right to expect all people to obey Him, look for anything to try to prove the Bible wrong. They say, since it is wrong here, it is probably wrong in this place that requires me to do something.
    There is no one on earth that can rightly be called a Christian, who questions the Holy Scriptures.
    It has been found to be true that no human being can translate the Bible without making a mistake. Any mistakes that have been made over the years, by many translators and copyists are easily found by comparing one Bible with another. Each Bible will have mistakes, but not the same mistakes, so it is very easy to see which is accurate, by comparison. If one Bible says something and ten say something different, the ten would, very likely, be right. I have about 50 English Bibles that I compare, and I find there are no real errors in God’s word. The problem is not with the Bible, but with people who reason, really Dope Out answers, instead of searching the Bible for answers, Genesis 40:8, Proverbs 2:1-12, Matthew 6:8.
    Anyone who questions the truth of the Bible, is questioning The Almighty God, Who has promised to keep His word true, from every generation, Psalms 12:6,7.
    Almost all the things that people say are wrong, are just a lack of understanding all of the Scriptures. The Bible tells ONE story, so if something does not agree, look it up in other Bibles or Bible Dictionaries, or Encyclopedias. Do not make statements about the Bible being inaccurate, because in The Original Autographs, there were NO errors. Keep searching and if you are truely sincere and pray to God, He will help you to understand.
    It is nothing but a cop out to blame your lack of understanding on the Bible!!! The only place to find real truth is in the Holy Scriptures! I consider myself to be a Biblist, or Biblicist, which means I form all my understanding of Doctrine from the Bible, I believe everyone should, and not listen to what someone says the Bible says!!!
     
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  15. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    That pretty much throws inspiration or inspired works out of the window . ;0)

    How everybody is confused and conflicted about their very own book, can't be Inspired then, much less directed by a God to accurately preserve for generations !

    Besides the original works of the Bible never survived whatsoever . They simply don't exist except for copies made after copies. You're looking at a book literally made after the facts for which the accounts are vauge or spurious at best.
     
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  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Actually some of the material found in Babylonian, Sumarian, Canaanite and Ugarite tablets may be considered original works, but many if not most Christians will not accept this,
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    Your neglecting the factual archaelogical and textual history of the Bible based on the objective evidence. Also, you are neglecting the many interpretations within Christianity that claim there interpretation is correct and others are wrong.

    Your asserting that everyone must blindly believe as you do or else, which is a problem.

    As illustrated; Noah's Ark is a huge contradiction.
     
    #37 shunyadragon, Jul 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  18. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    You are contradicting yourself. You point out that the bible has contradictions. I said yes if course nature is filled with contradictions why is that and you asked me to point them out. That itself is a contradiction.


    Or, Are you insisting that the bible magically exists independent from nature? Thats Noahs ark in kentucky logic. Which brings me back to my original question Does human logic determine nature or is nature determining human logic? Because human logic is absolutely not independent from nature although it loves to pretend it is! Dealing with 20,000 year old stories in modern terms is very humorous. Like a smart dumb which is a contradiction. 37a4963c39b3b99da7b4de7f25647537.jpg
     
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  19. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    Why is that?
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
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    It is an impossible construction for a sea worthy craft.
     
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